In this episode, Michelle Markwart Deveaux—author, singer, facilitator, coach, and founder of multiple mission-driven businesses— shares her journey from theology and the arts into business ownership, and the often unseen emotional labor of building something meaningful in systems that weren’t designed to sustain creatives. She speaks candidly about self-doubt at high levels of leadership, the difference between being nice and being clear, and why direct communication, while necessary, can deepen isolation at the top.

Together, Rachel and Michelle unpack how leaders learn to keep moving forward even while privately questioning their worth, impact, or belonging. Michelle reflects on her desire to be impactful rather than “important,” and why self-examination is not indulgent but essential for ethical, sustainable leadership.

Episode Highlights

• A candid exploration of how self-doubt often increases—not decreases—at higher levels of leadership, especially for women and femme founders.
• Michelle unpacks the difference between being nice and being kind, and why leaders eventually have to choose clarity over likability.
• A nuanced conversation about how direct communication creates effectiveness while simultaneously increasing isolation at the top.
• Insight into how many creatives and consultants unintentionally undervalue their work due to inherited narratives about money, art, and service.
• A powerful reframing of leadership success: impact over importance, and why visibility without integrity leads to burnout.
• Discussion of how leaders often miss or minimize opportunities because they’ve learned to downplay their own significance, particularly in female-socialized leaders.
• An honest look at how leadership requires holding consent, agency, and boundaries in environments that reward over-giving.