Fighting Fascism with Humor: Lessons from Activist Loretta J. Ross
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In this episode, MacArthur Fellow and lifelong human rights activist Loretta J. Ross shares why humor may be one of the smartest ways to fight fascism, and why outrage alone often falls short.
Drawing on more than 50 years of activism, including her work deprogramming white supremacists, Loretta explains the philosophy of her new book “Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel.” The discussion explores authoritarian psychology, cancel culture, and what actually helps people change their minds. To finish the episode, Loretta plays an improv game to show how laughter, curiosity, and dignity can open conversations that anger shuts down.
03:45 Why fascists hate being laughed at
07:30 Calling in vs. calling out
12:10 Why outrage often backfires
16:20 Fighting extremism without losing empathy
21:40 Lessons from deprogramming white supremacists
28:05 How fear fuels authoritarianism
33:10 Calling in family, friends, and strangers
39:00 When to disengage—and why that matters
42:40 The improv game: "good advice / bad advice"
55:10 How to fight fascism without losing yourself