Grant Lee is the co-founder of Gamma, the AI-powered presentation tool that’s one of the hottest and most interesting AI startups in the world right now. They’re valued at over $2 billion, and they hit $100 million ARR in just over two years, with a lean team of just around 30 people. Unlike many fast-growing AI startups, Gamma has been profitable for most of its history, has not raised significant funding, and they built a massive business in a category most investors dismissed. In fact, one investor told Grant his idea was “the dumbest idea he had ever heard.”

We discuss:

• How Gamma found product-market fit by rethinking their onboarding

• Their process for building a “word-of-mouth machine”

• How they leveraged more than 1,000 micro-influencers instead of big names

• Why focusing on the “first 30 seconds” transformed their business

• Their approach to pricing that led to profitability within months

• How Grant thinks about building a durable “GPT wrapper” business

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Where to find Grant Lee:

• X: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantslee

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Grant Lee and Gamma

(05:59) The founding story of Gamma

(09:52) Achieving product-market fit

(15:43) Self-awareness as a founder

(17:17) The power of onboarding

(20:41) The original insight that led to Gamma

(22:42) Founder-led marketing and growth tactics

(29:20) Sharing online

(37:40) Getting to $100M ARR

(41:19) Influencer marketing as a growth strategy

(54:08) Virality is not an accident

(58:30) Investing in brand before paid ads

(01:02:04) Tips for getting started with performance marketing

(01:04:49) Prototyping and user feedback

(01:16:12) Adapting and moving quickly

(01:19:21) The concept of GPT wrapper companies

(01:22:16) Deep dive into workflow and model utilization

(01:29:06) Pricing strategies

(01:34:53) Hiring philosophy and practices

(01:43:24) Betting big on high performers

(01:45:03) Final thoughts and lightning round

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References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-50-people-built-a-profitable-ai-unicorn

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.