Writer, podcaster, polymath, and intellectual synthesizer Elise Loehnen joins Holly for a wide-ranging exploration of how to navigate our current cultural moment with wisdom, nuance, and hope. From her unexpected journey from being the 2nd in command at Goop to becoming one of today's most thoughtful cultural commentators, Elise shares how she maintains optimism while grappling with the full complexity of our times. This conversation weaves together threads of spiritual practice, political engagement, shadow integration, and the essential work of staying regulated in a dysregulated world.

Identity and Intellectual Formation; Action vs. Contemplation - A deep dive into Richard Rohr's framework of putting action before contemplation, exploring how lived experience must inform our thinking and how to translate vertical spiritual connection into horizontal real-world engagement; The Energy We Bring - Discussion of how our vibration affects what we create, the responsibility of staying regulated during crisis, and why matching others' anxiety isn't loyalty but rather feeds collective fear and regression; Navigating Activism and Writing - Honest examination of the tension between direct action and contemplative work, exploring different roles in social movements and the challenge of maintaining your authentic contribution while feeling pressure to do "everything"; The Nature of Evil - Extensive exploration of M. Scott Peck's "People of the Lie," discussing whether evil exists, how shadow work relates to collective healing, and the danger of both denying darkness and being consumed by it; Cancel Culture and Shadow Projection - Analysis of how progressive movements created their own shadow through moral exclusion, the scapegoat mechanism in modern culture, and why we need to reclaim our projected darkness to create real change; Optimism in Dark Times - Elise shares the spiritual experiences that transformed her worldview, her practice of holding both horror and hope, and why she believes we're at a breaking point that could lead to genuine breakthrough rather than breakdown.

Elise Loehnen is a writer, podcaster, and cultural critic whose work synthesizes wisdom traditions, psychology, and social commentary. Former Chief Content Officer at Goop, she's the author of "On Our Best Behavior" and co-author with Phil Stutz of "Coming Alive." Her weekly newsletter and podcast "Pulling the Thread" explore the intersection of spirituality, culture, and personal development. She reads 50-100 books annually and has become one of the most trusted voices for readers seeking intellectual depth without academic pretension. Based between New York and California, she continues to bridge seemingly disparate worlds of thought into coherent frameworks for understanding our complex times.

Original music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.com

Sound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.com

Producers: Holly Whitaker, Adam Day

Original art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com

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