In this episode, Jack Cochran and Matthew James sit down with Micah Joel, GTM leader and demo engineering pioneer, to explore what it means to build a dedicated demo engineering function from scratch. Micah shares his journey from theater kid to SE to leading Salesforce's legendary Q Branch, and unpacks why demo engineering might be the most underutilized lever in presales today. They cover the difference between deal-focused and infrastructure-focused demo engineers, how to structure the team, why blended teams fail, and how a mature demo engineering org can swim upstream into product strategy to reduce time-to-revenue. This is part one of two. Part two will focus on measuring and proving the value of a demo engineering team.

• Connect with Jack Cochran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcochran/

• Connect with Matthew James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewyoungjames/

• Connect with Micah Joel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micahjoel/

• Join Presales Collective Slack: https://www.presalescollective.com/slack

• SoulCon 2026 (Chicago, August 2026): https://www.presalescollective.com/solcon-2026

• Presales Collective Podcast: https://www.presalescollective.com/podcast

1. Micah's Background: From Theater to SE to Demo Engineering

2. What Is Demo Engineering and How Is It Different from Being an SE?

3. When Does an Organization Need a Demo Engineering Team?

4. The Two Sides of Demo Engineering: Deal Support vs. Infrastructure/Scale

5. How to Hire and Structure the Team

6. Demo Engineering as a Talent Pipeline and Retention Strategy

7. Swimming Upstream: Demo Engineering's Role in Go-to-Market Strategy

8. Common Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

00:00 Welcome

02:48 Intro Micah Joel

05:42 Demo engineering definition

08:33 When do you need a DE team?

11:13 Deal side vs. infrastructure/scale side

15:48 Demo engineering as SE retention

23:55 Swimming upstream

27:11 Final advice