People don’t want to “be sustainable”... and Starbucks learned that the hard way. In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we learn from Amelia Landers, VP of Innovation at Starbucks, for a rare inside look at how one of the world’s most iconic brands is trying to close the intention–action gap for convenient -yet conscious- coffee.

For Starbucks, convenience is everything. Millions of people move through stores every day with deeply ingrained habits, emotional attachments, and morning rituals that are hard to change. Yet these same rituals are where some of the biggest opportunities for sustainable behavior change actually live.

Amelia Landers unpacks what she’s learned designing sustainability inside a global retail ecosystem where speed, consistency, and emotional comfort often outrank environmental intent. From reusable cup systems to packaging innovation, she shares how Starbucks is navigating circularity, consumer psychology, and systems change in real time.

This conversation is honest, practical, human — and required listening for anyone trying to make corporate sustainability work at scale.

Key Takeaways:

• Why “being sustainable” doesn’t motivate customers — but “making their world better” does: Sustainability is a polarizing identity; personal impact is a universal motivator.
• How Starbucks is tackling the convenience vs. sustainability paradox: Behavior change happens when sustainable choices are just as easy, seamless, and convenient as the familiar ones.
• Reusable cups as behavior design — not just waste reduction: A small but passionate group of customers proved that ritual, identity, and emotional connection drive adoption.
• Why circularity requires collaboration, not competition: Infrastructure, regulation, and recycling systems can’t be solved by one brand alone — “there is no IP in sustainability.”
• Progress over perfection in corporate sustainability: Sustainable innovation demands humility, experimentation, and the courage to move without all the answers.
• How Starbucks uses data, customer insights, and waste tracking to measure real impact: Metrics matter — especially when they reinforce behavior change and customer engagement.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction

02:00 – Amelia’s path from brand building at P&G to sustainable innovation at Starbucks

06:00 – Entering sustainability naively and discovering the complexity of systems change

08:04 – The convenience paradox: why “easy” always wins (and what Starbucks is doing about it)

10:30 – Designing reusable cup programs and customer-driven packaging innovation

14:07 – The hard parts: regulation, infrastructure, and the limits of what one company can control

16:01 – EPR legislation and the messy reality of circularity

17:49 – Progress, not perfection: leadership lessons from Starbucks’ sustainability evolution

19:46 – Influence without authority: navigating internal tensions

25:37 – Why tracking matters: measuring waste, behavior change, and customer engagement

28:38 – How different customer groups perceive Starbucks’ sustainability work

29:51 – Amelia’s closing wisdom: “Action is the antidote to despair.”

Additional Resources:

🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81

🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.