What if your phone served your life — not the other way around? Techless founder Chris Kaspar joins Matt and Jenny to unpack the thinking behind WisePhone 2 (a healthy, tool-only smartphone OS) and Sage, a UK kids’ iPhone with deep, multi-layered protections “safe out of the box”. We trace Chris’s journey from brand and filmmaking into mission-driven hardware/software, why he believes phones are “broken at the philosophy level”, and how dignity (not “kiddie” design) is the secret to teen adoption. We also get candid on fundraising, pricing pivots, and launching Sage in London — including an intimate, press-packed event at the Tate Modern. Expect practical strategies for parents, principles for leaders building humane tech, and a refreshingly honest look at the grind behind a purpose-led scale-up.

What You’ll Learn

· Why the philosophy behind mainstream smartphones (not the chips) drives unhealthy behaviour — and how to counter it.

· The shift from minimal (8 built-in apps) to healthy (approved third-party tools, no social/games/explicit).

· How Sage keeps teens’ dignity (iPhone UX, rebellious brand) so they’ll actually use it.

· Why parental controls alone fail — and what “final-layer” protection looks like.

· How to handle FOMO: creating small “opt-out” friend circles to tip culture.

· Inside a lean, relationship-first UK launch at Tate Modern (and why the UK is ready).

· Building with brand and ethos over patents — and why that’s the real moat.

Practical Plays You Can Use Tomorrow

· Audit the defaults: Turn off non-essential notifications; delete one addictive app; set greyscale at night. (Defaults aren’t designed for you.)

· Create a family phone plan: Choose tool-only apps (maps, banking, transport), no social/games; trial it for 30 days.

· Beat FOMO in a group: Agree a four-friend no-socials pact for a month; meet IRL weekly.

· If you’re shipping product: Launch humbly; optimise pricing with real-market feedback; iterate in public.

Memorable Lines

· “The defaults aren’t for you — they’re for advertisers and investors.” 【

· “Phones aren’t broken at the hardware level — they’re broken at the philosophy level.”

· “Kids don’t want kids’ phones. Dignity is the secret.”

· “Take initiative. Do ten things, fix the three that miss.”

Guest Picks

· Book: Positioning by Al Ries & Jack Trout and Warfighting by A.M. Gray

· Music/App: Suno (prompt-based music creation)

· Tool/Framework: EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) for lightweight, company-wide...