"Genre is a marketing tool, just like a book cover." - Mur Lafferty

In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula rant about genre expectations, marketing, and what happens when you decide that genre isn't for you because you're special.

Ursula lists her whales, and Imposter Syndrome doesn't really make a showing when Mur travels.

Highlights:
- (05:12) Ursula's anxiety over multiple deadlines and projects
- (12:45) Mur's recent business trip and the absence of imposter syndrome
- (25:30) The ongoing debate about happy endings in romance
- (38:15) The role of marketing in shaping reader expectations
- (47:50) The challenges of genre classification and reader assumptions
- (55:30) How personal growth as a writer often goes unnoticed

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(This post went live for supporters on June 9, 2025. Join the Fabulists if you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes!)

Transcript

Links:

• Stephen King
• Tana French
• Piranesi
• Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Instagram, Youtube
• Support via Patreon!
• Theme song by Devo Spice

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

June 12, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 6 | murverse.com
"It's a Multiple Whale Year for Ursula" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you want this to be your thing, you got to keep doing the thing." - Ursula Vernon

In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula dive into the chaotic world of writing, sharing their latest projects, travel plans, and ask you if that thing you wanted to say actually is the thing you want to say online. They discuss the SNAFU of the WorldCon AI controversy, the ethical considerations surrounding generative technologies, and whether it matters if the dog dies or not.

Highlights:

• (01:15) Welcome to the Warbler Appreciation room!
• (05:30) Ursula's upcoming travels and book festivals
• (12:45) The challenges of writing while managing ADHD
• (20:00) Ursula's progress on the next Swordheart book
• (30:00) Audio quality warning—Ursula's mic issues
• (35:15) The ethics of AI in writing and publishing
• (45:00) Worldcon's controversial decision to use AI for vetting
• (55:30) The importance of reading the room in online discussions
• (01:02:15) Closing thoughts and where to find them online

(This post went live for supporters on June 3, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, join our exclusive community over at Patreon!)

Transcript

Links:

• Escape Pod
• Rune Factory 4
• Crashlands 2
• Inaturalist
• Worldcon
• Agatha Christie

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate
• Mur on Instagram, Youtube
• Support via Patreon!
• Theme song by Devo Spice

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

June 4, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 5 | murverse.com
"AI and the Art of Not Reading the Room" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"The best way to survive is to turn everything into hilarity." - Ursula Vernon

In this episode we dive into the chaotic world of writing, marketing, and the ups and downs of self-publishing. Mur shares her recent trip to Maryland for Independent Bookstore Day, and Ursula catches us up on Swordheart's launch.

Self promotion is hard, ya'll.

Highlights:

• (05:12) Mur's experience running a solo RPG at an independent bookstore
• (12:45) Ursula's updates on Swordheart and her UK marketing team
• (25:30) The difference between traditional marketing and self-promotion
• (38:15) The importance of targeted outreach to influencers
• (47:50) Mur's thoughts on new marketing tools and strategies
• (55:30) Reflections on the passage of time and creative endeavors

(This post went live for supporters on May 22, 2025. Join the Fabulists if you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes!)

Transcript

Links:

• Death of the Author (Game)
• Stamp Fans (Mur isn't set up there yet, but bookmark that page)
• Escape Pod

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Instagram, Youtube
• Support via Patreon!
• Theme song by Devo Spice

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

May 19, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 4 | murverse.com
"Navigating Agents, Rights, and Reality" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you can tolerate the boring and lonely, then hopefully you'll be rewarded on the other side." - Ursula Vernon

In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula navigate the chaotic world of freelancing, taxes, and the ups and downs of being a writer. They discuss the recent Hugo nominations (two for Ursula, one for Mur!), share insights into their creative processes, and delve into the challenges of working with agents.

Chapters:

(03:29) Congratulations to Hugo Finalists!
(04:06) Several people from the podcast have been nominated for various awards
(05:41) Ursula has been working on several projects
(21:25) NaNoWriMo reportedly folded due to poor financial decisions
(22:03) NaNoWriMo brought hope to authors for decades
(28:07) Other writer community options?
(30:39) There are many guides on how to get an agent and how to spot a scam
(36:02) Agents are all different people.
(48:54) How much creative control does the author have over their book
(51:25) Where your agent is plugged into the ecosystem of the genre is very important
(54:48) How do you know when it's the right agent
(01:00:45) Brief side quest with Andrew the plant guy
(01:01:53) Ursula's new book hit number five on the New York Times bestseller list

(This post went live for supporters on April 21, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon!)

Links:

• Hugo Awards
• Caves of Qud
• Dawn of Man
• Swordheart (#5 on NYT Bestseller List!)
• Episode Transcript

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Instagram, Youtube
• Newsletter, The Hot Mic
• Support via Patreon! Or Substack!
• Theme song by Devo Spice

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

Apr 14, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 3 | murverse.com
"Navigating Agents, Rights, and Reality" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Sometimes the best way to survive is to turn everything into hilarity." - Ursula Vernon

Transcript

S.11 Ep.2

In this episode of Ditch Diggers, join hosts Mur and Ursula as they navigate the chaotic world of freelancing, taxes, and the ups and downs of being a writer. They discuss the recent Hugo nominations, share insights into their creative processes, and delve into the challenges of working with agents.

Highlights include:
(05:32) Ursula has too many author copies. She's written nearly 50 books
(12:30) Let's talk about marketing for SwordHeart
(24:09) A lot of your writing happened when you were doing chemo
(31:34) Mur wants to talk about newsletters. They constantly vex her.
(33:00) When Mur left mailchimp, she didn't export her mailing list
(44:58) It's called decision fatigue for a reason
(54:26) If you do get the desire to create during this time, do it

Links:

• Tor Publishing

• Zombies Run

• Swordheart

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher

• Mur Lafferty

• Mur on Focusmate!

• Mur on Instagram, Youtube

• Newsletter, The Hot Mic

• Support via Patreon! Or Substack!

• Theme song by Devo Spice

Support Local Book Stores!

Ditch Diggers credits: theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja, site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

April 21, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 2 | murverse.com
"Weeping Bunkers and Writing Woes: Surviving the Creative Chaos" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Try to make the world a better place. You personally are not on the hook to fix everything." - Ursula Vernon

(This post went live for supporters on January 17, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!)

Transcript

S.11 Ep.1
Welcome to Season 11 of Ditch Diggers with Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon! We try to be positive and funny in this episode, but stuff happens. We cover the Neil Gaiman controversy, touch on Ursula's move, and what our goals are this year.

Also there's a duck game in the background.

We explore the challenges of self-promotion in a post-Twitter world, the art of balancing work with personal life, and the importance of setting achievable goals.

Highlights include:

• Ursula's new life in New Mexico and the joys of mountain views
• The fallout from the Neil Gaiman scandal and its ripple effects
• Resolutions for 2025: from organizing Magic cards to self-promotion strategies
• The challenges of social media and finding new ways to connect with readers
• The enduring appeal of escapism and the role of storytelling in turbulent times

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Instagram, Youtube
• Newsletter, The Hot Mic
• Support via Patreon! Or Substack!
• Theme song by Devo Spice

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

January 13, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 1 | murverse.com
"Resolutions, Ducks, and That Elephant Is Back" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Editing is where you leave the craft behind and start thinking like a business." - Mur Lafferty

"I am the person with the hat." - Ursula Vernon

Transcript

(This post went live for supporters on January 13, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!)

In this final episode of season six of Ditch Diggers, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon dive deep into the world of editing. From the trials and tribulations of editing passes to the nuances of hat confidence, Mur and Ursula share their personal experiences and industry insights.

Mur shares her recent adventures at World Fantasy Con, including a surprise upgrade experience, while Ursula reflects on the significance of hats in her identity as a writer.

Highlights include:

• The stages and emotional journey of editing a manuscript
• Hat confidence and its unexpected perks
• World Fantasy Con experiences and the allure of fabulous hats
• The intricacies of balancing writing with editing and personal life
• Community alternatives to NaNoWriMo

Links:

• Hugo Awards
• Dragon Awards
• Tor Books

Evergreen Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Twitter, Instagram, Youtube
• Newsletter, The Hot Mic
• Support via Patreon! Or Substack!
• Theme song by Devo Spice
• Check Bookshop.org for all mentioned books!

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

December 30, 2024 | Season 10 Ep 6 | murverse.com
"Our Book Editing Process" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

December 30, 2024 | Season 10 Ep 6 | murverse.com | Copyright 2024, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

"Sometimes you just need to chase the inspiration, even if it means working on a project nobody asked for." - Ursula

Transcript

(This post went live for supporters on October 4, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!)

In this episode, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon tackle the complexities of burnout, the writing hustle, and the latest controversies in the literary world. Ursula shares her battle with mortgage woes, while Mur discusses the challenges of juggling multiple podcasts and writing projects.

The duo also delves into the fallout from NaNoWriMo's recent controversies and the implications of AI in the writing community. They ponder the impact of fallen idols in the literary world and the importance of making good choices in public-facing careers.

Recorded on Twitch every other Monday at 3pm Eastern time.

Highlights include:

• The struggles of balancing writing and personal life
• NaNoWriMo's AI controversy and community backlash
• Fallen idols and the consequences of public misconduct
• The importance of community in writing challenges

Links:

• Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher
• Mur Lafferty
• Devo Spice
• Legends and Lattes
• Babel by RF Kuang
• Supernova Con

Evergreen Links:

• Mur on Focusmate!
• Mur on Twitter, Instagram, Youtube
• Newsletter, The Hot Mic
• Support via Patreon! Or Substack!
• Theme song by Devo Spice
• Check Bookshop.org for all mentioned books!

Ditch Diggers credits:
theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja,
site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon).

October 9, 2024 | Season 10 Ep 5 | murverse.com
"Elephants in the Room: NaNoWriMo, Burnout, and More" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon
is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0