In this in-depth conversation, John sits down with Karen Hyatt to explore her lifelong faith journey in the LDS Church and the research that ultimately led to her excommunication. Karen shares her background as a devoted member -convert parents, mission service, leadership roles, and decades without doubt –before explaining what prompted her to closely examine Doctrine and Covenants 132 and the history of polygamy.

The discussion traces Karen’s deep divine into church history, including the Book of Mormon’s condemnation of polygamy, early revelations, the Nauvoo Expositor, William Clayton’s journals, Emma Smith’s role, and conclusions reached by modern LDS historians. Karen explains why she ultimately rejected D&C 132, why she believes Joseph Smith did NOT practice polygamy, and how she responds to accusations of bias or conspiracy thinking.

Karen also walks through the personal and institutional consequences of speaking publicly: compiling and sending her research to the Apostles (and their wives!), creating videos, disciplinary councils, losing her temple recommend, and being barred from paying tithing –while still choosing to attend church and value her ward community. The episode examines broader themes of authority, misinformation, prophetic fallibility, confirmation bias, and whether faith can exist without institutional silence.

This episode is a candid, emotionally grounded look at belief, dissent, and the cost of challenging one of Mormonism's most controversial doctrines.

Karen has compiled her research into a book titled “Woe Unto You, Scribes: The Hidden History of Polygamy.” You can order a spiral bound notebook online by emailing her: WoeUntoYouScribes@gmail.com

To find a PDF version of her book click here: https://josephtoldthetruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Woe-Unto-You-Scribes.pdf

Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.

To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.

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