We’re back with another crossover of American Angst and Church Potluck—and it’s the middle slice of a three-part series. In Part 1, we explored evidence for a religious impulse at the founding of the United States. Today, we flip the coin and examine the “godless constitution” thesis: why the U.S. Constitution reads secular by design, how the framers imagined church–state separation, and what that meant in practice—from oath vs. affirmation options and chaplains, to presidential proclamations and the Treaty of Tripoli’s blunt line that America is “not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

Host Dale McConkey and political philosopher Michael Bailey unpack what “secular” meant to the founders (hint: not automatically anti-religious), how federalism complicates easy slogans (a secular federal blueprint alongside evolving state choices), and why many founders still believed private, voluntary faith undergirds public virtue. We trace the gradual disestablishment of state churches as culture and diversity shifted, and we highlight Washington’s move from mere “toleration” to full religious liberty—rights grounded in conscience, not favors from a majority. Along the way: a birthday shout-out, a candy-aisle cold open (defense of the peanut butter cup!), and a game-show callback. We close by teeing up Part 3, where we’ll examine Christian nationalism today and how competing readings of the founding shape modern politics.

The views expressed on American Angst are solely those of the participants and do not represent any organization.