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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

Auteur(s): Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Épisodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 234

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 234
    Sep 25 2025

    We are delighted to welcome back Ian Coulson, a former Headteacher and now a school improvement adviser. He was previously a guest in December 2020 when he was managing the trials and tribulations of DfE guidance for school leaders during the Covid pandemic. He is now the Founder of Teaching Made Simple Ltd, an advisory organisation for schools. He is at pains to explain he doesn't believe teaching is simple, but by trying to focus on the most important things, it can be made more manageable.


    Stan gets things rolling by reflecting on the Good Hearts Law which ostensibly is “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” In other words, when we set one specific goal, people will tend to push towards that objective regardless of the consequences. This leads to problems when they neglect other equally important aspects of a situation.


    Ian then reflects on how he used self evaluation as a tool for improvement and why he believes it remains a key element of improvement. He also notes how Ofsted's new Framework references it without explaining its importance, particularly during the initial call with inspectors.


    Frank finishes the chat by considering the importance of community and why trust/school leaders need to step up to play a leading role in the elements that can affect children and young people's learning. He references an amazing conference he attended last week organised by Forum Strategy.


    It's a fascinating chat, or at least it was for the two regular gents.


    Enjoy!

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    43 min
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 233: Ronda Zelezny-Green Returns Edition

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 233: Ronda Zelezny-Green Returns Edition
    Sep 17 2025
    We are so fortunate to have highly regarded experts in their field who come along to be a guest on our chat. This week is a good example. The two gents are joined by Dr Ronda Zelezny-Green, the Chair of the Board at InnovateHer, as well as a digital changemaker creating social learning systems to empower Black people, women, people with disabilities, and others who may be marginalised in the technology and education sectors. She has nearly 20 years of professional experience spanning five continents from the public, private, and civil society sectors. A Black and Indigenous woman excelling with ADHD, Ronda also has extensive experience in delivering racial equity and justice and gender with global perspectives. This week, she draws attention to some recent research from the LSE into Generative AI and how it is being used by young people and influencing their parents and carers. She encourages us to consider how well AI is being deployed in England's schools. Stan and Frank reflect on how Ofsted's new Toolkit could be used (with care) for improving school self-evaluation and how inspectors are reacting to the webinars the inspectorate has recently organised. The statement Frank reads out may not be reflective of all who attend, but it is not the only negative report.

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    38 min
  • Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.17

    Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.17
    Sep 15 2025
    This special SPOTLIGHT considers how human resources has changed over the years. Frank and Stan are fortunate to be able to chat with Juliet Caunt, a former Director of People in a large multi-academy trust and who now offers consultancy to a wide range of organisations. We consider how the role of HR has changed over the years, some of the difficulties senior managers experience and how HR professionals help all parties. We also reflect on how Juliet extended HR services in a rapidly growing trust as well as consider some research she is currently undertaking into how trusts use staff benefits to improve retention and recruitment. It's a good 'un. Enjoy.

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    38 min
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