Is defensiveness stalling your org—and costing you money? In this episode of The Science of Engagement, Dr. Brian Peters and David Snyder show how to replace ego with curiosity and connect engagement to KPIs, profit, and cost reduction (no fluff). You’ll learn why the best leaders are insatiably curious, the exact question that raises the bar—“How do you know that?”—and two practical rituals that make healthy debate normal, safe, and productive.

What you’ll learn

• Why curiosity is the #1 leadership competency (and how it spreads across teams)

• How to introduce “How do you know that?” without triggering defensiveness

• The Top-10 Ideas weekly ritual to surface improvements fast

• The Devil’s-Advocate role to normalize dissent and better decisions

• Tying engagement to KPIs/ROI instead of posters and perks

Chapters 00:00 Intro: engagement without the fluff 02:06 “Welcome to Crazy Town” — defensive cultures in the wild 06:00 Leaders who can’t describe their teams’ work 13:28 Curiosity as the mother competency 24:56 The Top-10 Ideas weekly ritual 28:58 Assigning a devil’s advocate (safe dissent) 31:40 Normalizing “How do you know that?” 32:50 What’s next: The Path to Improvement

Key takeaways

• Curiosity → clarity → accountability → ROI

• Make questioning a role and a ritual, not a personality clash

• Start with shared improvement ideas, then layer in constructive challenge

employee engagement, leadership behaviors, organizational psychology, KPIs, ROI, psychological safety, people ops, culture change, cross-functional collaboration