In this open and vulnerable converstion, Genetic Frontiers host, Susanna Smith talks with Tiffany Graham Charkosky, author of Living Proof: How Love Defied Genetic Legacy, about their shared experiences of living with genetic risks, in Tiffany's case Lynch syndrome, and in Susanna's case CADASIL. They chat about the unique psychological state of living for decades as a healthy person who is also at risk of a serious disease, their feelings of guilt, responsibility, and shame, and the spaciousness that can be found in contemplating your own death.

Brought to you by The Tell Me Project

https://www.geneticfrontiers.org/thetellmeproject

Summary

Alexandra Minna Stern, PhD, author of Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate talks about how the American far right views genetics, genetic technologies, eugenics, and science and the emerging political threat of 21st century eugenics ideology and policies.

Episode Transcript available at: https://www.geneticfrontiers.org/transcript-ep-12

Key Topics

• How does the American far right view genetics and genetic technologies?

• What is the history of the American pursuit of choosing smarter children?

• What has science shown us about the relationship of heredity and intelligence?

• How does the idea of eugenics influence the current administration?

• How does the American far right use the concept of time?

• What is the metapolitic? How does it influence our political future?

Resources

• Alexandra Minna Stern. Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate: How the Alt-Right is Warping the American Imagination. Beacon Press. 2019.

• The Natal Conference 2025

• Southern Poverty Law Center. Profile: Charles Murray. Accessed July 18, 2025.

• Feb. 18, 2025. Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Expands Access to In Vitro Fertilization (IVF). Available at: whitehouse.gov. Accessed July 18, 2025.

• C-span clip from Health and Human Services Secretary Kennedy News Conference on Autism Rates. Accessed July 18, 2025

• Autism Society. Statement on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s Comments Regarding the Cause of Autism and Misleading Deadline. Accessed July 18, 2025

• Lisa Ko. Unwanted Sterilization and Eugenics Programs in the United States. Independent Lens blog on PBS.org. January 29, 2016

• Buck v. Bell | 274 U.S. 200 (1927)

• Sterilization and Social Justice Lab

• Genetic Frontiers. Episode 6: The Eugenesis of Genetic Counseling with guest, Alexandra Minna Stern, PhD.

• Alexandra Minna Stern. Telling Genes: The Story of Genetic Counseling in America. John Hopkins University Press: 2012.

Part of Genetic Frontiers Season 2: Genetics in American Politics & Culture, Sue Currell, PhD, discusses the disturbing echoes of eugenic thinking in American politics today. She calls eugenics "the backbone of political control and a progressive meritocracy," and argues that "grip of eugenic ideas on American politics today is a political failure to imagine a world where value is not profit."

Visit geneticfrontiers.org to hear more episodes on the promise, power, and perils of genetic information.

KEY TOPICS

• Reading of excerpts from "This May Be the Most Dangerous Thing Donald Trump Believes": Eugenic Populism and the American Body Politic.

• How should we understand the administration's agenda to "forge a society that is colorblind, merit-based, and only has two genders" in light of the eugenic history of the United States?

• How are you making sense of this focus on the gender binary, and whether it has a relationship to eugenic ideologies?

• From what you know about the history of efficiency in the United States, how are you thinking about the new Department of Government Efficiency?

• What is the story we're being fed by politicians? And what is the real story?

• How would you describe Trump's relationship to disability rights?

• Can you talk about the complicated histories of eugenics and abortion rights and how you think this is influencing America today?

• How do you think clinicians and scientists should be thinking about the role of science, in particular genetics, in America today?

Read full transcript of this episode here.