A podcast on medical billing and coding??? Ok, hear us out as we were skeptical too. We’ve invited the Billing Boys, Chris Jones and Phil Rodgers, who convinced us of the following:

1. Billing is complicated, but it isn’t hard.

2. Effectively billing helps pay for the interprofessional team members who often can't bill

3. We should know our worth and bill for it. Just because a visit didn’t feel HARD to a well-trained provider doesn’t mean it wasn’t complex or valuable. Many of us have long suffered from low professional self-esteem when it comes to money, and it’s high time we stop that.

4. While exclusively billing on time may have been right 20 years ago, we must now understand complexity and advance care planning (ACP).

We can't cover everything in the 45 minutes we are together, so here are some of the resources we reference in the podcast:

• Chris’s and Phil’s consulting contact info via Lightning Bolt Partners

• CAPC resources:

• • CAPC’s Billing and Coding Toolkit

  • CAPC’s Monthly office hours in Inpatient and Community-Based PC Billing and Coding run by Andy Esch, Phil Santa Emma, and Chris Jones

  • CAPC’s 2025 Annual Billing and Coding Update done by Phil and Chris each year

• Advance Care Planning resource from the Medicare Learning Network

• Top Ten Tips for Using Advance Care Planning Codes

• CPT 2025 Professional Edition. This is the book that has the Complexity Grid in it. The answers are all here! And your coders will likely share.

On today’s podcast, we talk about an innovative specialized primary care model for older veterans called the Geriatric Patient Aligned Care Team (GeriPACT) program. It’s designed with smaller patient panels and enhanced social worker and pharmacist involvement, and its approach is aimed at improving care and outcomes for our aging population.

We unpack the intriguing findings of a recent JAMA Network Open study authored by one of our guests, Susan “Nicki” Hastings, looking at GeriPACT that compares it to a traditional Patient Aligned Care Team (PACT). While GeriPACT successfully delivered more attention to geriatric conditions, it surprisingly didn't translate into expected improvements like more time at home or better self-rated health.

We discuss the potential reasons behind this with our other two guests, one a geriatrics fellow, Kristie Hsu, and the other a recurring guest and host of the podcast, Ken Covinsky. Was it just that it didn’t work, or were there other things going on, from the intensity of "usual care" to the challenges of measuring complex health outcomes and the possibility that 18 months simply wasn't long enough to see the full benefits?

Despite what was ostensibly a negative trial, we highlight some reassuring aspects and future hopes for GeriPACT and how we can all incorporate some of these components into the care of our patients. We'll also pose critical questions for future research, emphasizing why continued development and evaluation of new care models are essential for the health of our older population.

With all the attention focused on Alzheimer's biomarkers and amyloid antibodies, it’s easy to forget that comprehensive dementia care is more than blood draws and infusions. On today’s podcast, we buck this trend and dive into the complexities and challenges of comprehensive dementia care with the authors of two pivotal articles recently published in JAMA.

We’ve invited David Reuben and Greg Sachs to talk about their two respective trials, published in JAMA — D-CARE and IN-PEACE — aimed at improving the evidence for care models supporting individuals diagnosed with dementia. D-CARE tested the comparative effectiveness of health system-based dementia care, a community-based program, and usual care, while IN-PEACE assessed the addition of palliative care to dementia care programs for individuals with moderate to severe dementia.

Despite their pragmatic trial designs and high expectations, both studies' primary outcomes were negative, although there were some intriguing positive secondary outcomes. We discuss how some critical questions about the integration of these findings into practice, and how they fit in with previous research that did show benefits (see this past podcast on using health navigators to improve dementia care).

If you want to learn more about comprehensive dementia care, check out these past podcasts:

• Our previous podcast on comprehensive dementia care with Lee Jennings and Chris Callahan

• Our podcast on the GUIDE Model with Malaz Boustani and Diane Ty

• Our podcast on Transforming the Culture of Dementia Care with Anne Basting, Ab Desai, Susan McFadden, and Judy Long

Lastly, here is the link to Greg Sachs' NEJM article that describes his maternal grandmother decline from Alzheimer's disease.