In this thought-provoking episode, Van Sedita and retired Presbyterian pastor Phil Jones speak with Mark Friedman, author of Come Now, Let Us Reason Together. The conversation explores what authentic Judaism means beyond stereotypes of rigid law and ritual. Friedman recounts his journey from Reform Judaism through years among Chabad communities, describing how neither liberal editing nor strict orthodoxy fully capture Judaism’s heart.

He argues that after the Second Temple’s destruction, the rabbis “reinvented” Judaism—replacing sacrifice with study and prayer, grounding faith in debate and moral reasoning. The Talmud, he explains, reveals a religion built on adaptation: rabbis altered harsh or outdated laws as moral understanding evolved. Examples include nullifying ancient punishments and reinterpreting economic laws to preserve fairness and social stability.

Phil connects this to Christianity’s own struggle with scriptural authority, asking whether reformation means faithfulness or rebellion. Together, they wrestle with questions of permission, authority, and innovation: who decides when a law no longer serves its purpose? Van draws out the shared tension between divine command and human conscience—how both faiths hold space for doubt, reinterpretation, and renewal.

The episode closes on a hopeful note. Friedman insists that ritual matters only if it deepens ethical living. Jones adds that true innovation in religion comes from returning to the core covenant—to love God and neighbor. Across traditions, they agree: sacred texts endure not because they freeze time, but because they invite each generation to reason together.

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We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/