Helen Toner, whose decade of work on AI Safety came in to prominence when she was the OpenAI Board member who led the revolt against Sam Altman, and Emelia Probasco, who covers the national securty angles of AI both now work at the Centre for Security and Emerging Technology (CSET).

They join the podcast to discuss the security issues around AI with the conversation ranging from their take on the China / US race, the role of allies, alternative paths for the technology and the "AI Adulting Problem".

We discuss the challenges around AI as a dual use technology. As a general purpose technology it is impossible to control what happens next. This can cut both ways - drones optimised for warfare canm deliver humanitarian aid wiht great precision.

The key is to keep talking - and we discuss the current state of diplomacy around AI, why the US needs allies and how the worriers need to better articulate their concerns if we want to solve them.

We also touched on the alternative - how AI is being deployed in the military, why the existing rules of war matter, the challenges of deploying AI in legacy organisations (and with legacy weapons systems).

Helen and Emelia bring real insight from working on some of the hardest problems from where national security meets the transformational power of AI.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.