Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick McGee, Financial Times technology journalist and author of "Apple in China," discussing how Apple's deep integration into China's manufacturing ecosystem inadvertently helped build China into the industrial powerhouse it is today. McGee traces Apple's journey from near-bankruptcy in the late 1990s to becoming deeply dependent on Chinese manufacturing, explaining how Apple didn't just outsource production but actively trained Chinese factories and transferred sophisticated manufacturing knowledge that later benefited competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi. The two explore critical inflection points, including Apple's partnership with Foxconn, political tensions with Xi Jinping's government in 2013, and Tim Cook's decision to double down on China rather than diversify despite growing risks. McGee argues that Apple's current dependence on China is so profound that meaningful diversification to India or the United States faces enormous practical and economic obstacles, with Chinese manufacturing capabilities now potentially surpassing Apple's own expertise. The episode concludes with McGee advocating for a realistic U.S. policy that accepts manufacturing across allies, while warning that Americans fundamentally underestimate how technologically sophisticated China has become.

Recorded on December 10, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.