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In this raw and unflinching episode, Erin and Daren sit down with Lisa Sugarman (crisis counselor, author, and three-time suicide loss survivor) to dismantle everything society gets wrong about grief. From re-grieving the same parent twice to the loneliness of being the only fatherless kid in fifth grade, they expose why "finding meaning" in loss is often just avoidance with equal parts vulnerability, clinical expertise, and permission to stop pretending you're okay.

What We Uncovered:

- How Lisa lost her father at 10 to what she thought was a heart attack, then discovered 35 years later he died by suicide

- Why did no one ask 10-year-old Lisa how she was doing after her father died

- Lisa dismantles the cultural obsession with finding meaning in loss, arguing that sometimes grief is just grief, hard, ugly, and necessary

- What to actually say (and not say) when someone you love is grieving

Actionable Strategies:

✅ For Anyone Grieving: Give yourself permission to grieve without a timeline, without meaning, without a silver lining. Grief is love, and it doesn't end.

✅ For People Supporting Someone in Grief: Just show up. Say "I don't know what to say" instead of rushing to fix or find meaning. Ask "What can I do for you right now?"

✅ For Everyone: Mention their person's name. Share a memory. Bringing someone back to life for even a conversation is one of the most powerful gifts you can give a griever.

Chapters

00:00 The Power of Sharing Stories

03:10 Breaking Down Stigma in Mental Health

06:00 Personal Journeys of Grief and Healing

08:51 Creating Safe Spaces for Conversations

11:59 The Help Hub: A Resource for Healing

15:05 The Healing Potential of Vulnerability

17:59 Navigating Grief and Its Layers

23:59 Navigating Grief and Loss

27:17 The Complexity of Grief

30:32 The Challenge of Finding Meaning

35:34 Supporting Those in Grief

38:23 Addressing Suicidal Thoughts

42:55 Breaking the Isolation of Mental Health

45:12 Resources and Community Support

Connect with Lisa:

Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Help Hub

Podcast: The Survivors Podcast

If you’ve tried any of the strategies discussed or have your own tips, share them with us on social media using #UndoUnplugged.