In this episode, Divya speaks with Saad Gulzar, Associate Professor of Political Science and Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. At the time of recording of this episode, he was at Princeton University and has since moved to Notre Dame.

Gulzar’s research focuses on the politics of development in South Asia and centers on a critical question: How can governments deliver better outcomes for their citizens? His work combines randomized control trials, administrative data, and in-depth qualitative insights to examine how political representation and bureaucracies can become more responsive. The conversation explores Gulzar’s research on the relationship between politicians and bureaucrats, and the conditions under which their collaboration leads to more effective governance.

Gulzar’s findings highlight how the everyday decisions and motivations of these key actors shape the design and delivery of public policy. By uncovering these dynamics, his work offers valuable insights into how governments can better align expectations and improve the delivery of services in people's daily lives.

References:

Gulzar, S., Pathak, D., Thompson, S., & Toth, A. (2025). Can Party Elites Shape the Rank and File? Evidence from a Recruitment Campaign in India. American Political Science Review, 119(2), 812-831.

Gulzar, S., & Khan, M. Y. (2025). Good politicians: Experimental evidence on motivations for political candidacy and government performance. Review of Economic Studies, 92(1), 339-364.

Gulzar, S. (2021). Who enters politics and why?. Annual Review of Political Science, 24(1), 253-275.

Gulzar, S., & Pasquale, B. J. (2017). Politicians, bureaucrats, and development: Evidence from India. American Political Science Review, 111(1), 162-183.

In this episode, Divya speaks with Scott Hardy. Scott is an Extension Educator with the Ohio Sea Grant College Program, where he leads research and runs education and outreach programs on watershed restoration, coastal zone management, and stormwater runoff. He is also an Adjunct Associate Professor of Earth, Environmental, and Planetary Sciences at Case Western Reserve University, where he works on several research projects.

Scott’s work is all about collaboration — bringing people together to solve problems that no one can tackle alone. He knows that collaboration isn’t automatic. It takes time, trust, and spaces where people feel heard and included. He also believes that every place is different, and you need to really understand the local context to make teamwork work. Different projects need different kinds of partnerships, and Scott is skilled at figuring out what each situation needs.

In this episode, they talk about Scott’s ongoing work on Cuyahoga River restoration, where he has been closely collaborating with a wide range of stakeholders ranging from state agencies to industry to local communities. They also talk about his recent experience as a Fulbright Specialist at the Universidad de Atacama in Copiapó, Chile, where he was invited to share his expertise on sustainable water management.

References:

Hardy, S. D. (2022). Power to the people: Collaborative watershed management in the Cuyahoga River Area of Concern (AOC). Environmental Science & Policy, 129, 79-86.

Hardy, S. D. (2022). Transaction costs for collaboration in the watershed management of the Cuyahoga River Area of Concern. Regional Sustainability, 3(2), 146-156.

https://u.osu.edu/hardy.116/

Koontz, T. M. (2002). Federalism in the forest: National versus state natural resource policy. Georgetown University Press.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Nate Dominy, the Charles Hansen Professor of Anthropology at Dartmouth College. Nate is a biological anthropologist and an evolutionary biologist, studying the behavior, ecology, and functional morphology of humans and nonhuman primates. Nate speaks with Michael about his new research program on the role of fire in promoting social cohesion among humans. Fire is argued to have played an important role in human evolutionary history, and there are multiple mechanisms that have been hypothesized for how it could promote cohesion, including its rhythmic nature (its flicker rate), and its ability to enable storytelling, which itself is known to facilitate an increased sense of belonging and togetherness. This topic is an important complement to more traditional commons and institutional studies discussed on this podcast, which largely focus on how rules and norms can promote collective action and other outcomes.

References:

Nate’s website: https://anthropology.dartmouth.edu/people/nathaniel-j-dominy

Dunbar R.I.M., Gowlett J.A.J. 2014 Fireside chat: the impact of fire on hominin socioecology. In Lucy to Language: The Benchmark Papers (eds. Dunbar R.I.M., Gamble C., Gowlett J.A.J.), pp. 277–296. Oxford, Oxford University Press.

Lynn C.D. 2014 Hearth and campfire influences on arterial blood pressure: defraying the costs of the social brain through fireside relaxation. Evolutionary Psychology 12(5), 983-1003. (doi:10.1177/147470491401200509).

Wiessner P.W. 2014 Embers of society: firelight talk among the Ju/’hoansi bushmen. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 111(39), 14027-14035. (doi:10.1073/pnas.1404212111).

In this episode, Michael speaks with Maron Greenleaf, assistant professor of anthropology at Dartmouth College. They discuss Maron’s recently published book, Forest Lost: Producing Green Capitalism in the Brazilian Amazon, in which she examines a set of carbon offset programs in the Brazilian state of Acre. Unlike traditional forest commodities that require extraction, carbon offsets monetize forest protection by paying communities to keep carbon stored in standing trees. Based on extensive ethnographic fieldwork, Maron describes how forest carbon markets and offsets can be unexpectedly inclusive, providing economic opportunities for marginalized communities, while simultaneously reinforcing some of the inequalities they claim to address. Maron uses this study to illuminate broader questions about whether market-based solutions can effectively address environmental crises. Her work suggests that while green capitalism offers compelling possibilities for reconciling economic growth with environmental protection, it also reproduces some of the structural problems inherent in capitalist systems.

References:

Maron’s website: https://www.marongreenleaf.com/forest-lost

Greenleaf, M. (2024). Forest Lost: Producing Green Capitalism in the Brazilian Amazon. Duke University

Press. https://dukeupress.edu/forest-lost

Ferguson, J. (1994). The anti-politics machine:’development’, depoliticization and bureaucratic power in

Lesotho. University of Minnesota Press.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Jake Kheel, Vice President of Sustainability at the Grupo Puntacana Foundation, a non-profit organization located in the Dominican Republic. The Foundation is funded in large part by Grupo Puntacana, a major tourism company in Punta Cana, which is the most well-known tourism destination in the DR. As background, Michael met Jake some years ago through Michael's longtime collaborator, Freddie Payton, who runs the Dominican NGO AgroFrontera in the province of Montecristi on the other side of the country.

Jake and Michael discuss Jake’s 2021 book, Waking the Sleeping Giant: Unlocking the Hidden Power of Business to Save the Planet. In the book Jake describes his experiences working in Punta Cana, and the efforts that he and his colleagues have made to address numerous social and environmental issues, including overfishing, coral degradation, invasive seaweed, waste disposal, and water management. Jake and Michael discuss the reasons behind the successes of the Foundation, including the presence of local champions who invest in a particular place and its problems for the long term, which may be less glamorous but is critical for enduring success.

References

Jake’s website: https://www.jakekheel.com/

Kheel, J. 2021. Waking the sleeping giant : unlocking the hidden power of business to save the planet. Lioncrest Publishing.

In this episode, Divya interviews Usman Ashraf, a PhD student at the Helsinki Institute of Sustainability Sciences at the University of Helsinki. His research focuses on forest governance and the complexities of the implementation of development policies in Pakistan. This discussion centers around Usman’s report on Pakistan’s ambitious "10 Billion Tree Tsunami" project, titled "Participation and Exclusion in a Mega-Tree Planting Project in Pakistan." The conversation explores how this massive reforestation initiative, aimed at combating climate change, has inadvertently disrupted the lives and livelihoods of the nomadic herder communities in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Usman explains how the long-standing relationship between Pashtun landowners and the nomadic goat-herding communities has been disturbed by government incentives to plant trees, fundamentally altering these traditional dynamics. This episode goes beyond academic discussion to provide a deep dive into the real-world implications of climate mitigation projects on marginalized communities. Usman’s ethnographic insights reveal how large-scale plantation projects, often driven by political motives, can have significant ecological, social, and economic consequences.

Overall, the conversation highlights the complexities of such initiatives in the Global South, emphasizing the need to consider both ecological and socio-economic factors to ensure that development projects are genuinely sustainable and equitable.

In this final episode in our series on the future of fisheries management, Michael speaks with two of the co-organizers of the initial meeting that led to this series. Ilia Murtazashvili is a professor in the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, where he also serves as the Associate Director at the Center for Governance and Markets. Christine McDaniel is a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which also has a central focus on markets and society.

Each guest discusses their respective careers and the academic centers where they work. Ilia introduces the concepts of polycentricity and polycentric governance and their relationship to large-scale commons dilemmas such as overfishing, while Christine helps to explain the role of the World Trade Organization in fisheries policy through its rules and fishing subsidies, which has been a central topic throughout this podcast series.

To conclude this series, we want to thank Garret Brown at the Mercatus Center, where he is the Senior Director for Publications. Garrett was on the zoom call for this interview and you’ll hear him mentioned him a few times.