In the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now rebranded as 'Interbeing', the focus returns to coaching and its values in supporting both self-reflection and cultivating generative relationships within educational environments. The term 'inter being,' coined by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, frames this season’s exploration of interconnectedness.

Hosts Matt and Naomi introduce guest Emma Sheppard, a passionate advocate for family-friendly schools, to discuss the impact of coaching on personal growth and professional development. Emma shares her experiences with coaching, her transition into motherhood, and founding the Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project. The episode delves into the challenges and opportunities for educational institutions to support their staff as multifaceted human beings, emphasizing the importance of listening, presence, and personal fulfillment in fostering a positive and thriving school environment.

00:00 Welcome to Series Four: Exploring Interbeing

02:03 Introducing Emma Shepherd: Advocate for Family Friendly Schools

03:18 The Power of Coaching: Transforming Challenges into Opportunities

08:20 Emma's Journey: From Hopelessness to Empowerment

16:39 Balancing Motherhood and Career: The MTPT Project

26:01 The Role of Coaching in Supporting Parents

30:46 Creating Family Friendly Work Environments

40:59 Concluding Thoughts: The Human Experience in Education

Emma Sheppard founded The Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project, the UK's charity for parent-teachers, whilst on maternity leave with her son in 2016. Having trained through Teach First as an English teacher in 2010, she continued to teach in the British International School, Ho Chi Minh, acting as Head of House, before returning to the UK as Lead Practitioner at an academy in South London. Here, she held responsibility for ITT provision, teaching and learning, and line managed the EAL department. In 2020, Emma began training as a coach with The Coaching Academy, and then relocated to the south of France with her family in 2021 to coach and run The MTPT Project full time.

The MTPT Project is the UK's charity for parent-teachers. From humble beginnings as a blog and a Twitter handle, inspiring, empowering and connecting teachers choosing to complete personal and professional development whilst on parental leave, The MTPT Project has grown into the voice of parent-teachers in the UK.

The charity runs training and networking events, provides 1:1 and group coaching to teachers on leave, and is the only organisation completing research into women aged 30-39 - the largest demographic to leave teaching every year. Since 2016, The MTPT Project has worked to tackle the motherhood penalty in education, to transform education into a sustainable and "life-friendly" career choice for all.

Find out more about MTPT at https://www.mtpt.org.uk/

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and educators, dissecting where coaching succeeds and where it doesn't.

This episode, a bonus beginning to our new series, takes us back to our Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times online conference in June. We hosted the inimitable Claire Pedrick, founder of 3D coaching and The Coaching Inn podcast, to have a “keynote conversation” with Naomi Ward, our Head of Learning.

It wasn’t at all rehearsed. Naomi and Claire opened the day – not with a speech and cue cards, but with a pause.

In a warm, unhurried conversation, they explored what it means to lead as the human you are, not just the role you play. Claire reminded us that presence often matters more than speed, and that resourcing ourselves is not indulgence but responsibility. Together, they modelled the quiet courage of listening well, noticing what keeps us steady, and letting go of doing more in favour of doing what matters.

For school leaders holding so much for others, it was a gentle provocation: Who – or what – is holding you?

In this episode, Matt begins with a recitation of Mickey ScottBey Jones's poem about creating 'brave spaces' and discusses the importance of honesty, vulnerability, and simplicity in dialogues. Claire Pedrick and Naomi Ward then lead an in-depth discussion on fostering meaningful conversations in school environments.

00:00 Welcome to Inter Being: Introduction and New Name

02:02 Setting the Tone: Creating a Brave Space

04:29 Introducing Claire: A Journey of Identity and Roles

05:56 The Essence of Conversations: Simplicity and Vulnerability

09:56 Navigating Transformational Conversations

18:51 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

24:35 Practical Tips for Effective Communication

38:36 Resourcing and Support: Personal Insights

40:55 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Dialogue

You can find us on Linkedin at

Claire Pedrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairepedrick/

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times: https://makingstuffbetter.com/resourcing-yourself-in-a-time-of-uncertainty/

Interbeing 2026:https://makingstuffbetter.com/interbeing/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ and Kyra Kellawan

Many teachers want to make changes, but feel confined by the requirements of curricula and assessment. In this episode, our round table guests discuss their goals for the future of assessment, and how you can effect change even within the current system.

Tia Court-Smith (she/her) - A love of learning and facilitating learning for all ages brought me to teaching later than many. Recipient of the Ted Wragg Award during my PGCE I was trusted to lead a team in a wonderful school during my (then) NQT year. An amazing leader gave me the opportunity to question, collaborate and make things better for our amazing young people. I strive to do the same as a school leader who is now learning, working and loving life at an international school in Bangkok.

Elizabeth Solomon is an Anglo-Indian Jew raised raised between Mumbai, London, and Jerusalem. With over 20 years of IB teaching experience, she has lectured on postcolonial literature and taught IB English and Individuals & Societies in Japan and China. Currently working at the ISF Academy in Hong Kong for 14 years, she leads the International Mindedness PLC and is also an IB assessment author. Elizabeth is pursuing DEIJ certification and is an active member of AIELOC and the International School Anti-Discrimination Task Force. Speaking as a classroom teacher and mother of twins navigating the IB Diploma, she focuses on the realities of assessment for IB students.

Originally from Glasgow, Dariush Saheli began his teaching career in Bolton, England. In 2019 he and his young family moved to Kerala, India, where he rose to Head of Senior School at GEMS Education. He now leads the Seria Campus at International School Brunei.

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Contact the team about our Futures-Focused Pledge at https://zcal.co/t/makingstuffbetter/talktotheteam

You can find us on Linked in at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

What are the structures that restrict change in education? How do we ensure that our students leave our schools with qualifications that reflect the breadth of their knowledge and skill?

Our guest in this episode, Angeline Aow, has a wealth of experience in rethinking pedagogy and curriculum. She challenges our assumptions about what assessment can do and how teachers can use their own critical thinking skills to deliver meaningful educational experiences.

Angeline Aow is an international educator, learning and development specialist, workshop leader, school evaluator and pedagogical leader. In these roles, she has worked in the Asia-Pacific, European, Middle-East and African regions. Angeline trained and taught as a primary school teacher in Sydney, Australia. She then began her international school career at Nanjing International School, China and is currently working part-time at Berlin International School, Germany, in the role of PYP Coordinator (Upper Elementary). She also serves as a part-time International Advisor (focused on Inclusion via Diversity, Equity and Anti-racism - I-DEA) with the Council of International Schools. Her experiences as a homeroom teacher, music specialist, accreditation coordinator, curriculum coordinator and professional learning and development coordinator has given her unique insights in multiple areas.

A well-respected International Baccalaureate Primary Years Programme (IB PYP) educator, Angeline has been working with the programme since 2002 and has been a qualified member of the International Baccalaureate Educator Network (IBEN) since 2007. With over a decade of experience as a workshop leader she has facilitated multiple workshops on a variety of topics and categories. Her areas of expertise include written curriculum development, concept-based curriculum, promoting international mindedness, multilingual teaching and learning and more.

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

You can find us on Linked in at -

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Saving the planet can seem a daunting and overwhelming task, so how do we communicate the scale of the problem with hope and excitement in our schools? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of ecology and nature with a futures focus.

Kenny Peavey, originally from Georgia, USA, has over 23 years of experience teaching across Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, and Indonesia. Currently, he teaches Science, Math, and Regeneration in a dynamic outdoor setting at Green School Bali Middle School.
He has led thousands of students on experiential expeditions throughout Southeast Asia focused on cultural immersion, ecology, adventure, and service learning. Passionate about sustainability, Kenny has undertaken initiatives like cycling from Thailand to Bali on a bamboo bike to promote environmental awareness and kayaking around Phuket to highlight marine conservation.
He is also the author of The Box People - Out of the BOX!, a children’s book that encourages sustainable communities and connection with nature. Recognized for his commitment to environmental education and conservation, Kenny has received Volunteer of the Year awards from both Georgia Adopt-A-Stream and the Malaysian Nature Society.

Rose Scavotto is MYP & DP Biology & ESS Teacher and EcoSchools Coordinator at Benjamin Franklin International School. As a sustainability-focused educator, whose strengths include interdisciplinary work and hands-on projects, her goal is to create global citizens with a passion for bettering the world.

Tatiana Ramirez is the Founder of Pebble Effect (www.pebble-effect.net). Tatiana is on a mission to inspire and engage change makers to create a more sustainable and just world for the generations to come. She leverages 15 years of experience in sustainability education to amplify the positive impact of international schools on social and environmental justice.
Tatiana helps schools align their strategy and actions with the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and aims to foster cross-sector collaboration to drive lasting and systemic change.
In previous projects, Tatiana has advised international schools in Spain and Germany through their systemic transformation and the Eco School certification process. She has also initiated and facilitated partnerships with the Jane Goodall Institute, UNICEF and Foundation Airbus.

Our guests shared the following resources -

https://kennywpeavy.medium.com/regenerative-education-teaching-and-learning-that-heals-and-restores-4c82b445b3d6

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o9WBd-Sr4rBypLCMbeiRsjN5ed6qKxTl/view

https://www.gerhardcenter.org/resources-and-articles/what-is-regenerative-education

https://compasseducation.org/

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Contact the team about our Futures-Focused Pledge at https://zcal.co/t/makingstuffbetter/talktotheteam

You can find us on Linked in at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

With the effects of climate change all around us, discussion of the future must involve ecological considerations, but our guest in this episode invites us to think beyond environmental concerns, and to treat education itself as ecology.

In this discussion with Noan Fesnoux, we touch on reframing our expectations of consumption and our relationship with our environment, schools as metacognitive hubs, and the role international schools can play in leading change.

Noan Fesnoux is currently Creative Adviser to the Museum of the Future in Dubai. A person who first and foremost loves people and nature, he works with schools globally to embed place-based and project-based learning into their school culture. Starting as the Green Studies teacher at Green School Bali, he evolved and grew the program to become an integrated and school-wide experience. As Project Coordinator at the same school, he created an immersive middle and high school experience, LEAP Academy.

He went on to seed the vision and start Real School Budapest, a school built around project-based learning. A life long learner who strives to design and build learning environments which amplify the already mighty intrinsic human potential, Noan is also an entrepreneur who is unafraid to take on new challenges as long as the actions are driven by a desire to be more sustainable.

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

You can find us on Linked in at -

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

How can we work with our students to understand their political and cultural identities in a world of constant change? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of political economy, identity, privilege and culture with a futures focus.

Loretta Smith is an educator with more than 20 years of experience in international schools. She grew up between cultures, moving several times during her childhood. She is also the mother of two multi-racial, Cross Culture Kids. Her experiences of straddling several cultures as a child, adult, parent and educator have made her aware of how people negotiate belonging in different spaces. This tension drives her curiosity, inquiry and research into belonging. Her study on young children’s perceptions of belonging in culturally, ethnically and linguistically diverse settings is a part of the recently published Handbook of Research on Critical Issues and Global Trends in International Education. Loretta has the privilege of serving the Frankfurt International School Wiesbaden Campus as their associate principal and curriculum coordinator.

The Acting Head of Primary at Renaissance College, Hong Kong, Jason Doucette is originally from Prince Edward Island, Canada. He has worked in Hong Kong since 2002, in various kindergartens and primary schools, as a teacher, Head Teacher, PYP Coordinator and Vice Principal. Jason is a member of the IB Educator Network (workshop leader), an IB School Visiting Team Member, and a qualified Performance Coach. When not spending time with his wife and three young children, he enjoys reading, exercising, and travelling.

A grown up third culture child, British by birth, but raised in Hong Kong, dual British/Canadian citizen, Neil Scott has taught in South Korea, Qatar, Ontario Canada, and now in Hong Kong. He has 16 years experience in education and is currently finishing up an M.Ed. He is the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion lead at Kennedy School, Hong Kong.

Our guests shared the following resources -

Sylvia Duckworth’s Wheel of Power and Privilege - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Wheel-of-Power-Privilege-and-Marginalization-by-Sylvia-Duckworth-Used-by-permission_fig1_364109273

Emily Meadow’s Wheel for International Schools - https://www.cois.org/about-cis/perspectives-blog/blog-post/~board/perspectives-blog/post/can-diversity-equity-and-belonging-initiatives-create-division-in-schools-and-a-framework-to-help

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Contact the team about our Futures-Focused Pledge at https://zcal.co/t/makingstuffbetter/talktotheteam

You can find us on Linked in at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Many international schools are working hard on confronting issues of inequality, justice and global politics. Involving the wider school community can be challenging without a guide or a framework to follow. Our guest in this episode, Homa Tavanger, poses some thoughtful questions to start the conversation.

In this wide-ranging discussion, we talk about student activism in the wake of the murder of George Floyd, thinking about the future in a liminal age, and confronting colonial heritage.

Homa Tavangar is the co-founder of the Big Questions Institute and the Oneness Lab.

She brings 30+ years’ experience helping diverse organizations and individuals to build cultural, racial and global competence, strategic governance, and visionary, generative leadership in diverse schools and organizations. She coaches leaders on accountability for equity, leading through crisis, and advises on strategic design and planning across five continents. She has co-authored seven books for educators, and is the author of best-selling Growing Up Global: Raising Children to Be At Home in the World (published by Random House) and Global Kids (Barefoot Books). Her most recent publication is 12 Big Questions Schools Must Answer to Create Irresistible Futures with Will Richardson (forthcoming, 2025).

A graduate of UCLA and Princeton, Homa was born in Iran, has lived on four continents, speaks four languages, and has heritage in four world religions. She serves on several Boards, including ISS (International Schools Services) and is a judge for the Templeton Prize, considered the “world’s most interesting prize” with a purse calibrated to exceed the Nobel Prize. She is married and the mother of three adult daughters, and resides in Villanova, Pennsylvania.

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Contact the team about our Futures-Focused Pledge at https://zcal.co/t/makingstuffbetter/talktotheteam

You can find us on Linked in at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/