Before enterprises can deploy AI agents that actually work, they need something most organizations don't have: a single, authoritative source of truth. Joe DosSantos, Workday’s VP of Enterprise Data and Analytics, joins Robb and Josh for a wide-ranging conversation about canonical knowledge, the semantic layer, and why data governance, a concept from the 1990s, has suddenly become essential for AI deployment.

Large language models are predictive engines modeled to anticipate what users probably likely mean. For B2C applications where multiple interpretations are acceptable, this works fine. But enterprises need deterministic truth, not probabilistic guesses. The trio outline a solution in three layers: establishing canonical knowledge, building a semantic layer to translate between human definitions and machine-readable formats like YAML, and using LLMs as an interface to deterministic back-end systems.

For leaders evaluating AI investments, this episode clarifies what actually needs to be built before agents can deliver value: not flashy use cases, but the unglamorous, essential work of data governance and semantic translation.

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption — design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

- Use any AI models

- Build and deploy intelligent agents fast

- Create guardrails for organizational alignment

- Enterprise-grade security and governance

Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s7e2&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere:

Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

Chapters -

0:00 – Welcome to Invisible Machines

1:28 – Why AI Agents Fail Without a Source of Truth

2:34 – Canonical Knowledge Is More Than Feeding Data to an LLM

3:16 – LLMs Are Good at Language, Not Truth

4:16 – The Convergence of Governance and Generative AI

5:48 – Implicit vs Explicit Knowledge Explained

7:31 – Why Accuracy Breaks Down in AI

8:37 – The Real Launchpad for AI: Get the Facts Right

9:42 – Alignment, Not Intelligence, Is the Hard Problem

10:53 – Semantic Layers: Teaching Machines Meaning

12:38 – LLMs Are Interfaces, Not Systems

14:26 – Routing Questions: Inference vs Deterministic Answers

16:21 – Canonical Knowledge Requires Human Ownership

18:16 – There Is No ROI for Data (It’s the Foundation)

23:59 – From Use Cases to Systems Thinking

Episode Credits:

Robb Wilson - Host

Josh Tyson - Host

Elias Parker - Executive Producer

Vishal Menon - Producer

Maksym Zlydar - Audio/Video Editor

Mykhailo Lytvynov - Audio/Video Editor

Eugen Petruk - Graphic Design

Alla Slesarenko - Copy

Vira Prykhodko - Web Development

#InvisibleMachines

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Ben Goertzel, the researcher who helped popularize the terms "AGI" and “singularity”, as one of the most influential modern champions and systematizers of AGI, returns to Invisible Machines to discuss the decentralization of AI and what's actually missing from today's most advanced systems with Robb Wilson and Josh Tyson.

As enterprises rush to deploy AI agents and LLMs reshape workflows, a critical question emerges: who controls the infrastructure? Goertzel argues that while big tech dominates model development, a tension is building between centralized hegemony and decentralized, open systems — the same dynamic that shaped the internet itself.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Goertzel discusses his current work on Hyperon (the successor to OpenCog) and the ASI Chain, systems designed to enable decentralized AGI development. He explains why the rapid cycles of AI hype and disappointment — the traditional "AI winters and summers" — no longer slow progress the way they once did. The speed of change has accelerated into what he calls a "mathematical singularity," where six-month cycles replace decades-long shifts.

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption — design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

• Use any AI models
• Build and deploy intelligent agents fast
• Create guardrails for organizational alignment
• Enterprise-grade security and governance

Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s7e1&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

#InvisibleMachines

#Podcast

#TechPodcast

#AIPodcast

#AI

#AGI

#ArtificialIntelligence

#AgenticAI

#DecentralizedAI

#AIInfrastructure

#AIAgents

#FutureOfAI

#Singularity

We’re in a moment when organizations are approaching agentic AI backwards, chasing flashy use cases instead of building the scaffolding that makes AI agents actually work at scale. Erika Flowers, who led NASA’s AI Readiness Initiative and has advised Meta, Google, Netflix, and Intuit, joins Robb and Josh for a frank and funny conversation about what's broken in enterprise AI adoption. She dismantles the myth of the "big sexy AI use case" and explains why most AI projects fail before they start. The trio makes the case that we're entering a post-software world, whether organizations are ready or not. Listen and learn why the scaffolding— or agent runtime — matters more than use cases, why organizational gaps kill AI projects, how to move projects from pilot to production, and what "post-software" actually means for enterprises.

Check out Erika’s podcast, “Flower Power Hour”: https://open.spotify.com/show/15BTSl9fWiH3QTmVAYj6Fd

Learn more about Erika at

www.helloerikaflowers.com/

0:09 - NASA AI Readiness Explained | Erica Flowers on Agentic AI & Runtimes

1:48 - Why the “Big Sexy AI Use Case” Is a Lie

2:42 - AI Didn’t Start with ChatGPT: What NASA Has Been Doing for 30 Years

4:24 - Why AI Runtimes Matter More Than Any Single Use Case

5:21 - The Hidden AI Problem: Legacy Data, Silos & Organizational Reality

7:13 - The Boring AI That Actually Works (And Why Enterprises Ignore It)

8:10 - The AI Arms Race Nobody Understands

9:22 - AI Scaffolding Explained: The Metaphor Every Leader Needs to Hear

12:12 - AI Readiness Is Cultural Change, Not Just Technology

14:38 - From Parking Lots to Companies: How Simple AI Agents Quietly Scale

17:01 - Why Most AI Features Feel Useless in Real Products

19:08 - Stop Automating Spreadsheets: Ask AI the Question Instead

25:06 - The Post-Software Era: Why Designers Aren’t Enough Anymore

28:33 - UI Is a Medium: How AI Will Absorb Interfaces Entirely

46:24 - Infinite Content, Human Creativity, and the Future After AI

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption - design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

• Use any AI models
• Build and deploy intelligent agents fast
• Create guardrails for organizational alignment
• Enterprise-grade security and governance

Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s6e12&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

#InvisibleMachines

#Podcast

#TechPodcast

#AIPodcast

#AI

#AgenticAI

#AIAgents

#DigitalTransformation

#AIReadiness

#AIDeployment

#AISoftware

#AITransformation

#AIAdoption

#AIProjects

#NASA

#AgentRuntime

#Innovation

#AIUseCase