Steve Palmer sits down with Troy Hendrickson, our resident law student, for a deep dive into what law school doesn’t always teach you—this time, focusing on the mysterious world of grand juries.

They break down what a grand jury is, the differences between grand and trial (petit) juries, and why the standard of proof is much lower at the indictment stage than at trial.

Steve and Troy use the recent Epstein case as a jumping-off point, discussing the secrecy surrounding grand jury proceedings, why those records are generally kept under wraps, and who gets to peek behind the curtain (hint: it’s a very short list).

They unpack the legal and historical reasons for keeping grand jury information confidential, the ongoing court battles about whether transcripts should be released for so-called 'public interest' reasons, and the potential for the Supreme Court to settle this debate once and for all.

Plus, the conversation veers into attorney-client privilege, conspiracy theories about the Epstein case, and how high-profile cases influence the direction of legal rules. And, as always, they share their thoughts on what law school could do better—hint: more real-life cases, less rote memorization.

Moments

00:00 Probable Cause and Legal Standards

03:19 Grand Jury Process Explained

06:44 Memory Lapses in Consent Cases

12:47 Judge Denies Release of Transcripts

15:44 National Injunctions and Judicial Authority

19:11 SCOTUS on Judicial Authority Limits

21:35 Epstein's Suicide Theories Discussed

25:48 Nixon, Pentagon Papers, Legal Precedents

28:12 Beyond Law School Discussions

Here are three key takeaways:

Grand Jury Process Is Often Misunderstood: Many people—even in law school—mistake the role of a grand jury. Unlike the trial jury (“petit jury”), the grand jury’s only job is to decide if there’s enough evidence (probable cause) to indict, not to convict. Defense attorneys are usually kept in the dark and rarely present evidence or have the right to transcripts.

Grand Jury Testimony Is Highly Confidential: The secrecy rules are strict—defense can only access transcripts upon showing a “particularized need.” The rationale goes back to witness safety, protection of ongoing investigations, and safeguarding victim identities—concerns that remain deeply relevant today.

Legal Precedents Shape Access—Not Public Interest: While there’s massive public interest around cases like Epstein, courts have repeatedly ruled that historical or public curiosity is not enough to override the secrecy of grand jury proceedings. Real reform, if any, must come from Congress, not the courts.

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm,...

I’m pulling back the curtain on how I approach analyzing trial transcripts during the criminal appeals process.

I’ll walk you through my method for preparing an appeal—from my first pass through those massive transcripts, to zeroing in on key objections, carefully reviewing the jury instructions, and finding the connective threads that could make or break a case.

I’ll share why I always read the closing arguments first, what I’m really searching for as I flag important moments, and how all these details come together when building strong assignments of error.

Whether you’re a fellow legal professional or just curious about what happens behind the scenes of an appeal, I think you’ll find this episode packed with insights.

And as always, if you have questions about the appellate process or want me to cover a specific topic, reach out at LawyerTalkPodcast.com.

Here are my top 3 takeaways:

• Start with the End in Mind: Glenn always jumps to the closing arguments first. This helps him identify what both sides thought was most important, setting the stage for a focused, thorough read-through.
• Look Beyond the Obvious: Spotting objections is important, but so is reading between the lines. Sometimes, critical appellate issues crop up in jury instructions or voir dire, places many skip over.
• Find the Thread: Building a strong appeal is about connecting dots—assignments of error, evidentiary mistakes, and even courtroom themes need to be woven into a compelling narrative that judges can follow.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com

What should you do if you feel like your attorney isn’t really on your side?

I get calls like this more often than you’d think, and let me tell you—it’s not as straightforward as just hiring someone new. I’ll walk you through the realities of “firing” your lawyer, the ethical boundaries I have to consider when talking to someone who’s already represented, and why communication breakdowns trigger most problems between clients and attorneys.

I’ll share stories from my own experience, offer advice on how to approach these tough conversations, and explain what happens if you’re thinking of switching lawyers—especially if your case is moving fast toward trial. If you’ve ever felt left out by your lawyer or just want to understand how these situations are handled behind the scenes, you’re in the right place.

Key Takeaways:

Communication is Everything: Most issues between attorneys and clients stem from miscommunication or a lack of updates. Before considering a switch, have a candid conversation with your current lawyer.

Don’t Wait Until the Last Minute: If you decide to change attorneys, do it well before important deadlines (like a trial date). Last-minute changes can put your case—and the new lawyer—in a challenging position.

Follow Proper Steps: Formally terminate your current lawyer before contacting a new one. This avoids ethical complications and ensures a smoother transition.

Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Call 614-859-2119 and leave us a voicemail. Steve will answer your question on the next podcast!

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high-publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com