In this episode of the Backstage Pastors Podcast, hosts Phil and Tyler kick off the series by welcoming longtime executive pastor, author, and consultant Mike Bonem. The conversation centers on the origins and evolution of the executive pastor (XP) and second-chair leader role, drawing heavily from Mike’s seminal book Leading from the Second Chair and his more recent work Thriving in the Second Chair.

Mike shares the story behind writing one of the first books focused on second-chair leadership, reflects on how the XP role has changed over the past two decades, and offers practical wisdom for sustaining long-term effectiveness in backstage ministry. The discussion also explores challenges around change management in churches, delegation, metrics, and how second-chair leaders can find encouragement and visible impact even when their work often happens behind the scenes.

Resources Mentioned

• Unstuck Event: Church Building Masterclass with Phil Taylor

• Leading from the Second Chair by Mike Bonem

• Thriving in the Second Chair by Mike Bonem

• Leading Congregational Change by Mike Bonem

• In Pursuit of Great and Godly Leadership by Mike Bonem

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Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

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Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

CHAPTERS

01:40 – Series Overview and Defining the Executive Pastor Role

03:17 – Announcement: Church Building Projects Masterclass

06:24 – Introducing Mike Bonem

08:38 – The Story Behind Leading from the Second Chair

12:38 – Why Thriving in the Second Chair Was Written

14:04 – Extending Your Shelf Life in Ministry

17:00 – Finding Encouragement in Backstage Ministry

24:50 – Why Change Is So Hard in Churches

33:09 – Preparing for the Executive Pastor Role

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Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.