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Messy with Daniel Atlin

Messy with Daniel Atlin

Auteur(s): Solid Gold Podcasts #BeHeard
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À propos de cet audio

 Make Sense of the Mess of Leadership. Today’s leaders are facing unprecedented challenges. It’s a messy, complex world that requires a different approach and mindset to get things done. This is where you'll find conversations on how leaders in complex organizations navigate and make sense of the mess they find themselves in.Solid Gold Podcasts and Audiobooks Développement commercial et entrepreneuriat Entrepreneurship Gestion et leadership Sciences sociales Économie
Épisodes
  • Universities at the Boundary | Meric Gertler

    Universities at the Boundary | Meric Gertler
    Jan 15 2026
    Sensemaking and Placemaking.

    In June 2025, Meric Gertler completed a 12-year term as President of the University of Toronto.

    I had the privilege and good fortune to first meet and work with Meric Gertler in 2007 when he was then the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science at the University of Toronto. What stood out most was his curious, thoughtful, and deeply empathetic approach to leadership.

    Now, 18 years later, I thoroughly enjoyed our "Messy" conversation. A great deal of it explores how sensemaking is a crucial but often unrecognised function of university presidents, involving engaging with communities in all its definitions, interpreting signals, global trends and events to help their institutions understand their role in addressing societal challenges.

    We cover lots more ground in our conversation:
    • Why sensemaking is a non-delegable responsibility of senior leaders
    • How universities build (or lose) legitimacy and public trust
    • What higher education truly owes society
    • Universities as engines of access, inclusion, and opportunity
    • The challenge of fostering real debate & “disagree welling”
    • Leading through the pandemic
    • Navigating geopolitical disruption and social media fragmentation
    • How U of T became a global leader in sustainability
    • Lessons about mobilising change in complex systems
    • Practical leadership lessons on delegation, listening, and sustaining yourself in demanding roles

    This episode is a powerful reflection on leadership at the boundary: between institutions and society, certainty and ambiguity, responsibility and possibility.

    If you’re navigating complexity, questioning institutional purpose, or trying to lead with integrity in uncertain times, this conversation will stay with you.

    If you like it, please subscribe and share it with a colleague or friend! University of Toronto · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    59 min
  • Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau

    Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau
    Jan 8 2026
    Lasting impact happens inside people and adaptation is the critical skill.

    “That trusted network of peers is what keeps leaders standing when the work feels overwhelming.”

    In this episode of Messy with Daniel Atlin, I have a conversation with Heather Anderson (CEO) and David Kamau (Chief Program Officer) from Global Health Corps to explore what leadership really looks like when the stakes are high, the data is incomplete, and the path forward isn’t clear.

    GHC was built on a core belief that systems don’t have agency, people do. It is focused on building capacity in health systems through fostering leadership competencies and skills in early and mid-career leaders in Africa and the U.S.

    David and Heather they unpack how GHC built a “movement” of emerging health leaders across Africa and the U.S. and they do that through tapping into lived and shared experiences, building coaching muscles and a peer community, and harnessing the power of public narrative. They talk candidly about adaptability in crisis, navigating equity and power and preventing burnout in under-resourced systems.

    Key themes of this conversation are:
    - Leadership is a practice, not a position
    - Adaptability is the signature leadership trait
    - Networks prevent burnout and isolation accelerates It
    - Leadership development is a long game where impact doesn’t always show up immediately or cleanly
    - Careers are non-linear and purpose is the best anchor
    - Collective leadership is greater than singular heroic leadership

    We also talk about the relevance of Marshall Ganz’s work on public narrative and its importance to fostering movements and change.
    The work David and Heather do, and the impact of Global Health Corps is impressive.

    If you’ve ever wondered how leaders in a global non-profit keep going in the mess, this conversation is your blueprint.

    And if you want to support an amazing organisation follow and support GHC. Global Health Corps website and how to support them · Information about Marshal Ganz and his work on Public Narrative · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    48 min
  • Leading like a jazz conductor, not a classical maestro | Mark Walton

    Leading like a jazz conductor, not a classical maestro | Mark Walton
    Dec 9 2025
    Hospitals are messy, complex, adaptive systems.

    In this episode, I speak with Mark Walton, President and CEO of Guelph General Hospital. Together, we explore what leadership looks like inside one of the messiest systems we have: a community hospital under relentless pressure. We'll learn lessons to get through the mess.

    Mark traces his health care journey from a 17-year-old ward clerk to finally realising his teenage dream of becoming a hospital CEO and why he cried in the middle of Canadian Tire when he got the call offering him the role of his dreams.

    He makes the case that hospitals and universities as a different species of organisation and are really complex adaptive systems that don't act like a traditional business. They are mission-driven, financially constrained, and constantly juggling patient care, staff well-being, community trust, donors, and regulators.

    Mark shares what he learned in previous roles, leading Ontario’s COVID-19 response: the importance of naming uncertainty, the long shadow of trauma on health-care workers, and a powerful story of learning a key leadership lesson by stepping into the “cracks between systems” to support migrant farm workers when “no help was coming.”

    Along the way, he talks about AI in healthcare, the loneliness of the CEO role, why he leads more like a jazz conductor than a classical maestro, and how music, teaching, and rest help him stay grounded.

    It's a candid, hopeful conversation about complexity, values, and leading humans in a system that never sleeps. Guelph General Hospital's website · Mark Walton's LinkedIn profile · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    45 min
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