In this episode, we dive deep into the attacks on the CES Letter and its author, Jeremy Runnells, unpacking why apologetic responses—no matter how weak—are often accepted by believing members. This is the first in a multi-part series analyzing the LDS Discussions CES Letter project.We tackle critical questions about the Book of Mormon, including:-Why does it contain errors from the 1769 King James Bible?-What about the italicized words from the KJV showing up in the text?-Why doesn’t the Book of Mormon match Joseph Smith’s own translation of the Bible?-What does DNA evidence say about the Book of Mormon narrative?-And how do apologists handle the serious anachronisms in the text?Along the way, we explore FAIR Mormon’s increasingly irrelevant defenses, the hidden Gospel Topics Essays, and shifting church narratives.This is an essential deep-dive for anyone curious about Mormonism’s truth claims, historical issues, and the apologetics surrounding them.Join the conversation and subscribe for future episodes in this CES Letter series.

Join us today as we rebroadcast the story of the man behind the famous CES Letter: Jeremy Runnells.In February 2012, Jeremy Runnels experienced a crisis of faith, which subsequently led to a faith transition in the summer of 2012. In the spring of 2013, Jeremy was approached and asked by a Church Education System (CES) Director to share his concerns and questions about the LDS Church’s origins, history, and current practices. In response, Jeremy wrote what later became publicly known as Letter to a CES Director.Letter to a CES Director very quickly went viral on the internet. The CES Director responded that he read the “very well written” letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a response. No response ever came.From then on, hundreds of Mormons have stumbled across the CES Letter and it has caused them to question their faith. Other believing sites have attacked Jeremy Runnells over the years, saying that he was insincere or that he never believed the church was true. His story clears up all doubt that he was a true-believing Mormon.___________________

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In this episode, we continue our in-depth series with historian John G. Turner, author of Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Covering chapter five of his book, we take a deep dive into the claims of the Three and Eight Witnesses to the golden plates. Did they actually see physical plates—or was it a visionary experience?

We explore the early translation period, the role of the Whitmer family, the revelations guiding Joseph Smith, and the complicated testimonies of Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer. Were the golden plates material objects, or were they seen with "spiritual eyes"? We also discuss later accounts, contradictions, and the ongoing debate among scholars and believers.

Highlights:

The experiences of the Three and Eight Witnesses

Spiritual vs. physical claims of the plates

Testimonies, contradictions, and controversies

What happened to the plates—and the witnesses—afterward

Subscribe for more episodes exploring Joseph Smith’s life, early Mormonism, and the origins of the Book of Mormon.

⁠Show Notes⁠

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00:00:00 Introduction

00:07:34 Why are the Whitmer’s getting involved?

00:14:28 Joseph Smith covering the plates in a barrel of beans

00:20:13 The Whitmer Family

00:25:51 The Melchizedek priesthood

00:31:31 The experience with the three witnesses

00:39:12 Did Gold plates exist?

00:42:49 Spiritual eyes vs physical eyes

00:45:38 Did the witnesses see physical plates?

01:03:17 The eight witnesses

01:10:15 Possible explanation for the witnesses to the golden plates

01:25:26 What became of the Eight Witnesses?

01:28:22 What became of the golden plates?

01:31:43 How the Book of Mormon gets printed

01:49:13 What is coming up next

___________________

Mormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!

Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:

• One-time or recurring donation through Donorbox
• Support us on Patreon
• PayPal
• Venmo

Our Platforms:

• YouTube
• Patreon
• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts

Contact us:
MormonStories@gmail.com
PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Social Media:

• Insta: @mormstories
• TikTok: @mormonstoriespodcast
• Join the Discord