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In this episode, Mandy Griffin and Katy Swalwell delve into Chapter 4 of Elizabeth Gillespie McCray's book 'Mothers of Massive Resistance,' focusing on Jim Crow storytelling. The hosts discuss FDR's New Deal, judicial court packing, and how progressive politics were often used to reinforce white supremacy. They analyze the complex figure of Nell Battle Lewis, a North Carolinian journalist whose advocacy for a less violent, more benevolent form of white supremacy highlights the contradictions of white liberalism. The conversation touches on Lewis's support for segregation, her admiration for certain Black elites within constrained boundaries, and how her eugenic beliefs influenced her work. The hosts also reflect on how modern white progressives must remain vigilant about their complicity in maintaining these systems.

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Des Moines area locals, Please join Mom’s Against Genocide on August 13th from 10a-12p at the Neal Smith Federal Building. More info on Instagram @momsagainstgenocide.

Even if you’re not in Des Moines, please listen for ways you can organize in your community!

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In this episode, Mandy Griffin and Katy Swalwell continue their discussion on Elizabeth Gillespie McRae's book, 'Mothers of Massive Resistance.' They delve into the stories of three Southern white women—Florence Sillers Ogden, Mary Dawson Cain, and Cornelia Dabney Tucker—who significantly influenced political activism and white supremacy in the early to mid-20th century. Ogden leveraged local politics and New Deal policies to benefit white elites while maintaining segregation. Cain focused on anti-prohibition and business-friendly policies, also breaking with the Democratic Party due to its evolving racial policies. Tucker campaigned against FDR's court-packing plan and later promoted the Republican Party among Southern whites, emphasizing business interests and states' rights under a white supremacist agenda. The episode underscores the complex roles these women played in shaping the South's political landscape and how their actions still resonate today.

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In this episode, the hosts delve into a heated discussion about the deeply entrenched white supremacist narratives in the American education system, sparked by the second chapter of McRae's book, Mother's of Massive Resistance. They recount the persistent work of historical figures like Mildred Lewis Rutherford in influencing school curriculums to perpetuate biased histories. The conversation touches on the frustrations and professional insights of both hosts as they connect these historical trends to current events and policies, highlighting the enduring impact on today's education. They also explore contemporary conservative strategies, such as religious curriculum in Texas, and discuss the potential for progressive inroads. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to support organizations and efforts that promote inclusive and accurate educational narratives.

00:00 Introduction and Initial Reactions

00:28 The Emotional Impact of the Book

02:42 Professional Backgrounds and Personal Stakes

06:55 Historical Figures and Their Influence

12:00 Dominant Narratives vs. Counter Narratives

16:09 Modern Implications and Personal Anecdotes

20:24 Rutherford's Legacy and Modern Education

33:14 Local Control and Federal Oversight

35:15 States' Rights and Progressive Uses

35:45 Protecting Children: A Cover for White Supremacy

39:28 The Role of Education in Shaping Narratives

41:30 Textbook Bias and Historical Erasure

44:02 The Impact of Racism in Education

52:26 Efforts to Counteract Historical Erasure

54:53 Controversial Curriculum Changes in Texas

01:08:36 Strategies for Challenging the Status Quo

01:12:23 Call to Action and Conclusion

Links:

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2025/07/17/texas-bible-bluebonnet-lessons-may-spur-parent-opt-outs-after-mahmoud/

https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/view-article-2020-12/se8406335.pdf

https://www.zinnedproject.org

https://rethinkingschools.org

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The Persistent Legacy of White Women's Role in Segregation and Resistance

In this episode, hosts Mandy Griffin and Katy Swalwell initiate a conversation on their new book focus, 'Mothers of Massive Resistance' by Elizabeth Gillespie McRae, which explores the pivotal role of white women in maintaining white supremacy. They highlight the author's background, the central themes of the book, and how it reveals the active and intentional efforts by white women in various societal arenas such as social welfare, public education, and popular culture. The hosts reflect on the relevance of these historical insights to current events and stress the importance of local-level activism in combating entrenched systems of oppression.

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:31 Personal Struggles and Small Wins
02:31 Travel and Current Events
04:03 Generational Reflections
04:38 Podcast Purpose and New Book Introduction
06:04 Listener Engagement and Community Building
10:12 Author Background and Book Details
13:52 Introduction to Segregation's Constant Gardener
14:24 The Plant Metaphor of White Supremacy
15:42 Four Areas of Focus in the Book
17:10 White Women's Role in Segregation
19:54 The Threat of White Apathy
23:44 Historical Parallels to Modern Politics
32:54 The Importance of Local Level Actions
34:01 Conclusion and Next Steps

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Navigating the Mess: White Women's Role in Politics and Motherhood

Hosts Mandy Griffin and Katie Swalwell delve into a discussion about the pervasive and historical role white women have played in upholding white supremacy through politics and motherhood. They reflect on the disorienting state of current events, the importance of local action, and the influence of female political figures like Krisit Noem, Pam Bondi, and Joni Ernst. The episode primarily focuses on the book 'Mothers of Massive Resistance' by Elizabeth Gillespie McCray, which explores how white women have consistently contributed to segregation and racism in America. The hosts highlight their disillusionment with the political system and express the need to understand historical patterns to effectively combat ongoing inequalities.

00:00 Welcome to Dirty Laundry

00:46 Life in a Dissociative State

01:39 Trump's Women and Media Overload

04:12 Commercials and Political Ads

07:16 Trump's Surgeon General Nominee Controversy

14:36 The Importance of Science and Research

20:24 Influencers and Misinformation

20:53 Marketing Manipulation and Grifters

21:20 Political Commentary on Joni Ernst

25:40 The Role of Motherhood in Politics

27:26 Plant Research and Mutual Aid

29:11 Introduction to 'Mothers of Massive Resistance'

30:33 White Women's Role in White Supremacy

43:42 Call to Action and Future Plans