When is a Dire Wolf not a Dire Wolf? When it’s a Grey Wolf made white and fluffy with a few tiny changes. When is a Woolly Mammoth not a Woolly Mammoth? When it's an elephant made hairy by a few tiny changes.

And yet one organisation has claimed, with much fanfare, to have brought back the Dire Wolf, and has plans to bring back other species, such as the Woolly Mammoth.

In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Dr Nic Rawlence, Associate Professor of Ancient DNA at the University of Otago – Ōtākou Whakaihu Waka about the issue of de-extinction, and how what is claimed to have happened, whatever it is, is definitely not that!

Nic is a palaeontologist and ancient DNA specialist working at the sharp end of what genetic science can genuinely tell us about the past. He is a prominent voice pushing back against the hype surrounding so-called “de-extinction,” arguing that what we are seeing is not the recreation of lost species. Such sensational claims can also distract from the more urgent work of conserving species that still exist, and give a false sense that extinction doesn't matter so much anymore, when it does.

You can check out Nic’s extensive research profile at… https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nicolas-Rawlence

Nic was recently awarded the prestigious New Zealand Association of Scientists’ Cranwell Medal for excellence in communicating science to the general public in any area of science or technology… https://www.otago.ac.nz/news/newsroom/prestigious-medal-for-science-communicator

You can follow Nic on Twitter at… https://x.com/nic_rawlence_nz

You can find Michael on Blue Sky at… https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social

To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at… https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity

At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at… https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

Adele Pentland (Curtin University) and Sally Hurst (Macquarie University), are both Superstars of STEM with extensive experience in public engagement and media communication. They are both palaeontologists, which we think gives them a bit of an advantage over some of the other sciences, since we’re the ones with dinosaurs!

In a wide ranging conversation, host Michael Mills chats with Adele and Sally about why effective communication matters for the public understanding of ancient life Along the way, they discuss several successful outreach strategies, science heroes, and offer practical advice for scientists and educators looking to communicate their research more engagingly.

This is the first in a series of episodes recorded during the 2025 CAVEPS Conference in vertebrate palaeontology at Flinders University in South Australia in November, 2025.

You can find Adele’s podcast, “Pals in Palaeo” through the following link… https://linktr.ee/palsinpalaeo

Be sure to follow the podcast on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/palsinpalaeo/

You can also head to the Pals in Palaeo website at https://palsinpalaeo.com/

Check out Sally’s website at https://www.sallyhurst.com.au

And her Found a Fossil website at https://www.foundafossil.com/

Found a Fossil also has an Insta account at https://www.instagram.com/foundafossil

And a Tik Tok account at https://www.instagram.com/foundafossil

You can find Michael on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social

To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity

At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

What actually is a kangaroo? And how long have they been the giant red or grey hopping things so synonymous with Australia? In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Dr Isaac Kerr about the origin of kangaroos as “weird possums that lived in the trees a bit”, the significant gaps in the kangaroo origin fossil record, and how we make sense of what we’ve got. In a wide ranging conversation about kangaroo origins, they also discuss why of all the locomotion strategies that could have been adopted, Australia is the only place where large animals have taken to hopping.

You can follow Isaac on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/isaacarkerr.bsky.social

Isaac’s latest paper, “Limb osteology and functional morphology of the extinct kangaroo Dorcopsoides fossilis”, can be found at…

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.251591

It was in Episode 1 of Season 3 that Michael and Isaac first chatted about the prehistoric group of kangaroos, Protemnodons. Find the episode here…

https://palaeojam.podbean.com/e/the-tale-of-a-giant-prehistoric-kangaroo-or-three/

You can read the full 250 plus pages of Isaac’s remarkable paper on Protemnodon, here…

https://mapress.com/mt/article/view/megataxa.11.1.1

Here’s a link to the Flinders University palaeo team…

https://sites.flinders.edu.au/palaeontology/

You can find Michael on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social

To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity

At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam