Today’s conversation explores one of the most urgent questions of our time: What would our world look like if our economic system prioritized human and ecological wellbeing instead of endless growth?

I’m joined by Omer Tayyab, researcher and collaborator with economist and author Jason Hickel (Less Is More). Omer works at the intersection of economic theory, political ecology, and democratic reform — with a special focus on degrowth, post-growth futures, and how societies can thrive within planetary boundaries.

We met at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, where he’s currently based, and this episode turned into an expansive, energizing exploration of how we might redesign the systems that shape our daily lives — from work and wealth to democracy, technology, and community resilience.

If you're curious about how to build a world that actually works for people and planet, this one’s for you.

We cover:

• Why “degrowth” is not austerity or “living with less”—but a pathway toward more wellbeing, more leisure, more connection, and more equity.
• How our current growth-driven system is structurally incompatible with ecological stability.

• The key insights from Jason Hickel’s book and why it resonated so deeply.
• How capitalism’s central goal—maximizing profit rather than wellbeing—creates ecological overshoot and social harm.

• Why the modern economy forces us to produce things nobody needs, simply to keep money circulating.
• Alternatives that emphasize public services, care work, and meaningful contribution.

• How the pandemic revealed the brittleness of global supply chains.
• The risk of collective amnesia now that we’re “moving on” without actually solving the underlying vulnerabilities.

• Why many democracies behave like competitive reality shows—pitting groups against each other for votes.
• How democratic structures might be redesigned to emphasize deliberation, cooperation, and long-term thinking.

• Why efficiency alone cannot solve ecological collapse (“Jevons paradox”).
• Where technology does help—and where it simply accelerates throughput.

• Why a degrowth society is not about deprivation, but about liberation from unnecessary work, debt, and consumption.
• How communities across the world are piloting post-growth models right now.

Less Is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World, by Jason Hickel

The Divide: Global Inequality from Conquest to Free Markets, by Jason Hickel

Thinking in Systems: A Primer, by Donella Meadows

Omer's LinkedIn Profile

Omer on Twitter

"

In this episode, Matthew Nagler and I discuss a bunch of things, after intending to focus on cognitive flexibility.

That's pretty meta...

We meander through various behavioral science "greatest hits," including the endowment effect, loss aversion, and altruism.

We explore how these phenomena affect human behavior and social dynamics, specifically by looking at a "prisoners' dilemma" type game show, and how one person's "Golden Ball" strategy shocked a nation.

Then we roll up our metaphorical sleeves and get serious about cognitive flexibility.

We explore the role it plays in personal identity, career changes, and societal issues like gender fluidity.

We also tackle thorny ethical questions of how to balance personal and societal concerns, and how to enhance human welfare for all in a world where my ability to change can seem like a direct threat to you.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:04 Exploring the Endowment Effect

04:15 Loss Aversion and Decision Making

18:49 Cognitive Flexibility and Personal Growth

38:58 Entering the Business World

39:36 Challenges in the Private Sector

41:18 Reflections on Meaningful Work

43:28 The Value of Teaching

49:14 Cognitive Flexibility and Social Impact

53:52 Balancing Personal and Social Responsibilities

01:00:17 Game Shows and Human Nature

Zen and Economics — a Substack by Matthew Nagler

Golden Balls - split or steal on YouTube

The Will of the Many, by James Islington

Catalog of Terry Pratchett's DiscWorld series

Affari Toui - Italian version of Deal or No Deal

Moral Ambition, by Rutger Bregman

Are empathy and humanity compatible with great leadership, or do they just get in the way? That's the topic of today's conversation with executive coach Jennifer Nash about her book, "Be Human, Lead Human: How to Connect People and Performance."

Jennifer's got great war stories (or more accurately, Peace Stories). Like how Alan Mulally turned things around at Ford by NOT being the smartest guy in the room.

Looking for a mnifty mnemonic to guide you to become a better, more human-centric leader? The HUMANS framework has you covered.

Don't miss this inspiring conversation—you'll definitely walk away with some fresh insights on creating happier, more effective workplaces.

01:00 Ballroom Dancing and Leadership

02:02 The Story Behind 'Be Human, Lead Human'

03:33 Alan Mulally's Transformative Leadership at Ford

09:36 The Importance of Human-Centric Leadership

21:56 Jennifer's Journey: From Ford to Deloitte

23:40 Implementing Human-Centric Strategies in Organizations

29:55 The Motivation Behind Transformation

30:15 The Power of Semantics in Change

30:44 Understanding Human Behavior and Motivation

31:22 Organizational Change Strategies

32:55 Ford's Inclusive Leadership Approach

35:03 Introducing the HUMAN Framework

35:51 Breaking Down the HUMAN Framework

38:19 The Importance of Relationships in Leadership

40:03 Self-Assessment and Feedback in Leadership

43:04 Addressing Neurodivergence in Leadership

48:18 Coaching Through Self-Awareness and Emotional Reactions

52:53 The Future of Leadership with AI