Welcome back to Sanctuary in the Jungle, a podcast for criminal defense attorneys about the importance of humanity and reason in the criminal legal system.

In this episode, host Aaron A. Nelson sits down with Texas criminal defense attorney and writer Matthew Hefti. Matt’s path to becoming a defense lawyer is deeply personal. While deployed overseas, he was involved in a tragic incident and charged with homicide in the military justice system. Matt shares how his various experiences—from writing a novel, to dismantling bombs to parenting and religion—informs how he stands with his clients and how he works to make the system more just. Drawing from his own case, he discusses how change often comes from recognizing where discretion exists—even when the system insists “there’s no other option.”

This episode is a powerful listen for criminal defense attorneys, public defenders, and trial lawyers seeking deeper insight into how we can better tell clients’ stories, demand accountability, and bring more healing into defense work.

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Matt is also the author of A Hard and Heavy Thing, a novel about friendship, sacrifice, and the weight of it all. In 2016, it was named Top Ten Books of the Year by Military times, Top Ten First Novels of the Year by Booklist and Great Group Reads pick by the Women’s National book Association.

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Sanctuary is back with a true Wisconsin criminal defense legend—Attorney Deja Vishny. A longtime public defender, Deja has handled more than 125 homicide cases, earning much recognition for her work. Deja is the recipient of NACDL's 2023 Champion of Justice award, two lifetime achievements from WACDL, the Wisconsin Law Journal's "Women in the Law" award, and many more.

She brings that depth of experience to a powerful conversation about what it means to build sanctuary in cases defined by loss. She'll tell us about how she brings humanity and healing to the courtroom, including how she has conversations with families of the deceased.

Beyond trial work, Deja teaches defense and trial advocacy across the country, serves on the faculty of the National Criminal Defense College, has held leadership roles with the NACDL, and authored a book on suppressing criminal evidence.

So tune in! Deja Vishny has much to offer.

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In this episode of Sanctuary in the Jungle, host Aaron Nelson sits down with Attorney Joe Bugni for an honest conversation about the craft — and the cost — of good advocacy. Together, they explore the clearest ways to communicate with judges, why flashy arguments aren't always the best choices for a client, and what it means to give yourself fully to the people you represent.

Joe also opens up about the harder side of that calling: the moments when giving too much pushes you to your breaking point, and how you find your way back.

It’s a vulnerable, grounded look at the heart of defense work — the clarity, the sacrifice, and the humanity behind it.

Read more from Joe Bugni:

Post Mortem of a Breakdown: A New Approach to Work

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