Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Joel describes an exceptional Product Owner scenario at a large insurance organization where complementary skills created magic. Working with two different people - a business expert who understood insurance but lacked development knowledge, and a designer with user experience expertise - Joel suggested the designer take on the Product Owner role while collaborating closely with the business person.

This collaboration between complementary skills produced outstanding results. The great Product Owner understood that their role wasn't to control every detail but to unleash developer creativity by providing problems and context rather than prescriptive solutions. Joel's approach of "give the developers a problem and a canvas" allowed the team to innovate while staying focused on customer needs. This Product Owner fostered innovation rather than preventing it, demonstrating how effective collaboration can transform product development.

Joel identifies a problematic anti-pattern: the Business Analyst who transitions to Product Owner but can't abandon their documentation-heavy approach. While Business Analysts can make excellent Product Owners with proper support, those who insist on documenting everything create communication bottlenecks and slow down delivery. This creates a "telephone game" effect between the BA/PO and developers. Joel encountered one such individual who would declare "the developers can't do that" without giving them the opportunity to explore solutions.

Following his "no-scroll bar rule" for documentation, Joel emphasizes that Product Owners should provide just enough information to enable developer creativity, not overwhelming detail that stifles innovation. When the problematic BA was replaced with someone who understood customers and trusted developers, the team's innovation flourished.

In this segment, we refer to the book Liftoff, by Larsen and Nies.

Self-reflection Question: Are you enabling developer innovation by providing problems and context, or are you stifling creativity with excessive documentation and control?

🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025

Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories.

🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders.

💡 Learn practical strategies for impact.

🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator

Check Full Program

About Joel Bancroft-Connors

Joel Bancroft-Connors is The Gorilla Coach — a Certified Scrum Trainer and Agile disruptor focused on sustainable value and effectiveness. With a background in product, project, and coaching, Joel blends sharp insights with practical tools to help teams thrive. He is a Miro power user and rocks curated classroom playlists.

You can link with Joel Bancroft-Connors on LinkedIn.

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Joel has evolved his definition of Scrum Master success over time, moving beyond traditional metrics to focus on what truly matters: sustainable value delivery. While Agile principles clearly state the goal of delivering value continuously, Joel emphasizes that success isn't just about making profit - it's about creating sustainable profit through sustainable processes and people practices. He challenges Scrum Masters to consider their "people sustainability metric" and asks whether their approach supports long-term team health and organizational resilience. Joel's definition encompasses three pillars: delivering sustainable value, maintaining sustainable processes, and ensuring sustainability for people. This holistic view of success requires Scrum Masters to think beyond immediate outcomes and consider the long-term impact of their practices.

In this segment, we refer to the book Turn the ship around! by David Marquet.

Self-reflection Question: What is your people sustainability metric, and how are you measuring whether your Scrum practices support long-term team and organizational health?

Joel advocates for returning to the foundational retrospective format outlined in "Agile Retrospectives" by Derby and Larsen. Rather than getting caught up in complex or creative retrospective techniques, he emphasizes the power of following the basic steps: set the stage, gather data, generate insights, decide what to do, and close the retrospective. Joel stresses that there's an important arc to retrospectives that shouldn't be overlooked. By taking time to properly gather data and following the structured approach from the agile retrospectives book, teams can achieve more meaningful and actionable outcomes. Sometimes the most effective approach is simply executing the fundamentals exceptionally well.

In this segment, we refer to the book Agile retrospectives, by Derby and Larsen.

🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025

Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories.

🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders.

💡 Learn practical strategies for impact.

🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator

Check Full Program

About Joel Bancroft-Connors

Joel Bancroft-Connors is The Gorilla Coach — a Certified Scrum Trainer and Agile disruptor focused on sustainable value and effectiveness. With a background in product, project, and coaching, Joel blends sharp insights with practical tools to help teams thrive. He is a Miro power user and rocks curated classroom playlists.

You can link with Joel Bancroft-Connors on LinkedIn.

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Joel shares his first experience as a CSM at a traditional hard drive manufacturing company, where he learned the art of patient change management. Tasked with bridging the gap between a rigid mothership company and their agile startup division, Joel discovered the power of focusing on principles rather than processes. For six months, he concentrated on creating transparency and shifting focus from status reporting to "getting to done" without ever mentioning Scrum or Agile.

His approach followed what he calls the 90-day rule: "In the first 90 days - do no harm, but then have a plan to do something." By listening first and building trust, Joel helped the team deliver a product in just three months. He emphasizes the importance of making people feel valued and using "future perfect thinking" to envision desired outcomes before introducing change.

In this episode we refer to Luke Hohmann’s Innovation Games, the website and resource Manager-Tools.com, and Daniel Pink’s book Drive.

Self-reflection Question: Are you rushing to implement changes, or are you taking time to build trust and understand the current state before introducing new practices?

🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025

Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories.

🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders.

💡 Learn practical strategies for impact.

🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator

Check Full Program

About Joel Bancroft-Connors

Joel Bancroft-Connors is The Gorilla Coach — a Certified Scrum Trainer and Agile disruptor focused on sustainable value and effectiveness. With a background in product, project, and coaching, Joel blends sharp insights with practical tools to help teams thrive. He is a Miro power user and rocks curated classroom playlists.

You can link with Joel Bancroft-Connors on LinkedIn.