• Why is this an exciting change?
  • The release of impression data in Spotify's dashboard is significant because it brings data-driven insights to podcasting.
  • It allows podcasters to understand how users discover their shows on Spotify, whether through homepage features, search results, or their library.
  • This development mirrors the evolution of app ecosystems, where data-driven tools became essential for growth, leading to the success of the app industry.
  • It emphasizes the importance of podcast visibility optimization (PVO) and its impact on content discoverability.
  • Some podcasters are shifting from an advertising-driven model to a subscription-driven one, akin to the transition seen in app subscriptions.
    

What A/B tests can publishers now implement and measure, and what kind of results can they expect?

• Podcast publishers can conduct A/B tests to optimize elements like cover art, titles. They can also start measuring the impact of ratings on their ocnversion rate.
• Improving cover art can lead to more than a 10% increase in click-through rates.
• Changing titles to be more descriptive or engaging can enhance discoverability.
• Increasing star ratings from three to four stars can double click-through rates, resulting in more downloads and listens.
  

What does it change for Voxalyze and our users?

• It validates the importance of podcast visibility optimization (PVO) for Voxalyze users.
• Impression data highlights that many people discover content through search, emphasizing the need to focus on being visible in search results.
• Voxalyze users can leverage data-driven insights to improve their content's performance and visibility.
  

Potential future features that would greatly improve the dashboard:

• Extending the data history beyond 30 days to track trends over a more extended period.
• Providing downloadable data to enable in-depth analysis and historical record-keeping.
• Offering insights into the countries where impressions occur, helping podcasters tailor their strategies.
• Providing episode-level data to distinguish between show and episode promotion.
• Expanding insights beyond impressions to include click-through rates and conversion rates, offering a more comprehensive view of a podcast's performance.
  
  Show notes with free template available here .

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Timestamps

1:45 About the consensus in the industry that FB ads don’t work to grow podcast audiences
2:31 Obvious pitfalls podcasters should avoid when using FB Ads to grow their podcast audience
6:14 the FB Ads pixel
9:30 Capturing email addresses for later re-engagement and audience and content research
12:39 The Right Facebook Ads Campaign objectives to capture leads
18:07 How to reduce your cost per listener
20:21 Tools to create ads
22:45 How media groups can leverage FB ads to grow the audience of their podcast

Key ideas:

About the consensus in the industry that FB ads don’t work to grow podcast audiences

• Facebook ads are usually deemed not very effective for growing podcast audiences, at least not when leveraging the traditional approach.
• The traditional approaches consists in directing traffic to podcast pages. The environment switch creates friction.
• The average cost per click on FB is fairly high so the economics of a click to podcast funnel don’t work out

Obvious pitfalls podcasters should avoid when using FB Ads to grow their podcast audience

• Avoid boosting posts. You’re missing out on targeting and campaign optimization options
• Avoid using traffic campaigns. They bring you people very likely to click but unlikely to taker the action you expect from them. There’s one exception mentioned at the end of the episode.
• A smarter approach involves using Facebook Ads Manager with specific targeting and campaign objectives tailored to your podcast marketing goals.
• Don’t run campaigns without using the FB pixel before. The FB Pixel provides invaluable insights into your audience’s behavior, leading to more efficient and effective ad campaigns.
• Pro tip: install the pixel on your website today, so FB has gathered plenty of visitor data by the time you start using FB ads.

Capturing email addresses for later re-engagement and audience and content research

• Instead of directing traffic directly to your podcast page, focus on using ads to capture email addresses from potential listeners.
• Building an email list is an essential asset for podcasters, as it facilitates listening re-engagement, content research, and targeted communication.
• Use a lead magnet to incentivize the sign up

What Facebook Ads Campaign objectives should you use to capture email addresses?

• Opt for Facebook’s “lead generation” campaign objective when aiming to collect email addresses from your audience.
• Decide between using instant forms (native lead capture forms on FB) or sending users to a dedicated landing page on your website for email capture.
• Both have pros and cons
• Instant form pros: lower friction, cheaper cost per lead
• Instant form cons: lower quality leads, potentially complicated setup to get the double opt-in depending on your CRM
• Dedicated landing page: the opposite

How to reduce your cost per lead

• Experiment with various audience segments to optimize your campaign’s performance. Example: Andrea’s podcast is geared towards people who start a business later in life so she only targets +40 individuals.
• Be open to testing different ad formats, including images, videos, and carousel ads, to find what resonates most with your audience.
• Continuously refine your targeting and creative elements based on performance metrics to drive down your cost per lead.

Tools to create ads

• Canva is an accessible and user-friendly platform for creating ad graphics and visual content.
• AI-powered tools like Midjourney can assist in ad creation, especially for those who lack design skills.

How media groups can leverage FB ads to grow the audience of their podcast

• Adopt a holistic approach to podcast growth within the context of your overall business goals.
• Blend paid advertising strategies with organic methods to maximize your podcast’s reach and impact.
• Consider running traffic campaigns when launching new podcast shows to make a splash, and kickstart a positive organic feedback loop (start trending thanks to paid downloads, get organic downloads, and keep trending). See our interview with Joni Deutsch for more details on how NPR does it.

Full show notes available here

Timestamps

5:47 How to leverage human curiosity to drive your social media audiences to your podcast
12:03 What type of lead magnets work when appearing as a guest on other shows, and which don’t?
17:13 How to structure the lead magnet landing page to increase your sign-up rate and increase SEO traffic from Google
22:47 What email marketing tool Deirdre recommends to capture email addresses and nurture your list
24:07 Conversion rate benchmarks for your landing page
27:22 How to deliver value, properly nurture your email list, and feed your content flywheel
31:03 A summary of the 8 types of honey traps (mental models)
32:38 How can people with no marketing background implement honey traps in their content easily

Key ideas:

How to leverage human curiosity to drive your social media audiences to your podcast

• Leverage curiosity on social media to attract your audience by creating “honey traps” that trigger their interest.
• Use mental models like “The Paradox” to create curiosity-inducing content. For instance, combining contrasting elements like a million-dollar result and an unexpected method.
• Real-world examples, like a session titled “How I Made a Million Dollars with a $19 Product and a Toilet Seat,” can spark curiosity and drive engagement.
• Applying the “Cliffhanger” model keeps your audience engaged by withholding the complete story, prompting them to seek the conclusion.
• Embrace the “Boxer” model by addressing pain points and offering solutions. This formula is proven in marketing to resonate with audiences.
• Utilize the “Jaw Dropper” approach, teasing secrets or the “Marvel” technique, presenting frameworks to attract listeners who are eager to learn more.
• Understanding and applying these mental models can significantly boost engagement, as shown by Deidre’s experience, where downloads spiked by 2.5 times.
• By strategically using these curiosity-driven models, you can encourage listeners to close the loop and seek more information through your podcast episodes.

What type of lead magnets work when appearing as a guest on other shows, and which don’t?

• The traditional lead magnets like checklists and cheat sheets may not be as suitable for podcast audiences, as they are more inclined towards audio content.
• Create lead magnets that bridge the gap between the podcast content and the audience’s learning style, such as bonus clips or audio excerpts from podcast episodes.
• Utilize content honey traps to open loops and create curiosity, encouraging listeners to opt in for bonus audio content that complements the podcast episode.
• Gating relevant audio content as a lead magnet can significantly increase email list sign-ups, attracting engaged listeners who are more likely to return for more podcast content.
• Align your lead magnets with the learning preferences of your podcast audience to foster engagement and keep them within the same medium, enhancing the overall listener experience.

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Timestamps

0:01 Cost per download benchmarks
3:22 How to approach blended cost per download and cost per listener calculation
8:23 The challenges of scaling paid campaigns and how to overcome them
13:40 What is the best property or landing page to send your paid traffic to?
16:17 How to approach multi-app tracking and attribution for publishers with their own listening app?

The complete show notes available here">here.

Cost per download benchmarks

• Target cost per download (CPD) varies depending on factors like genre and client objectives.
• Cost per download can range from as low as 17 cents to as high as $23.
• Consider what is realistic within your available budget and desired outcomes.
• Determine the number of downloads needed to meet advertiser commitments or profitability goals.
• Balance the need for volume with a reasonable CPD; aim for a CPD below $1 in most cases.
• Be mindful of the investment made in creating a show and its potential for profitability.
• Consider factors like existing budget, desired revenue, and necessary download thresholds when determining CPD targets.

How to approach blended cost per download and cost per listener calculation

• Consider engagement metrics like completion rate and new followers when analyzing podcast analytics.
• Focus on the cost per listener rather than just the cost per download.
• Consider the blended cost per download, which includes both paid and organic sources.
• Track your total audience's growth and evaluate your total spend's effectiveness.
• Re-engaging existing listeners is as important, if not more important, than acquiring new ones.
• A long-term growth plan should include strategies for retaining and engaging both existing and new listeners.
• Utilize podcast attribution tools to gain better insights into cost-per-download metrics and optimize your campaigns.

The challenges of scaling paid campaigns and how to overcome them

• One of the biggest hurdles in scaling campaigns is the emotional impact of seeing conversion rates decrease as spending increases.
• Allowing sufficient time, budget, and space for campaigns to develop is crucial. For instance, the cost per click might start very high on social media, but after a few days or weeks, it can decrease significantly.
• Patience is necessary to observe the average cost per desired action decrease over time. For instance, if a customer stays engaged for a year and the initial cost per download is $10, the blended cost per download might be as low as $1 when they have listened to around 10 episodes.
• Unexpected events or competition from other podcasts can impact results. Understanding uncontrollable factors is essential.
• Educating clients and setting realistic expectations is essential. Communicating the anticipated fluctuations and improvements in performance helps manage their understanding.

What is the best property or landing page to send your paid traffic to?

• Conversion rate optimization is absolutely essential to decrease your CPD when running paid campaigns
• The best property to send paid traffic depends on your tech stack and capabilities.
• Ideally, use smart links that detect the user's device and existing platform to take them directly to the preferred platform (e.g., Apple Podcasts for iPhone users, Spotify for Android users).
• Consider reducing the number of steps to reach one of your episodes, aiming for a seamless experience.
• Landing pages that allow users to click on their preferred platform may require additional steps and reduce the immediacy of engagement.
• Prioritize making your podcast page easily accessible and memorable to drive conversions.
• Ensure your creative aligns with the easiest-to-remember and easiest-to-access property.

Timestamps

1:22 The best podcast promotion channel
5:37 Establishing benchmarks
10:57 How to decide on the right marketing spend based on your goals
17:43 How to go about testing podcast networks
20:04 How to create ads that convert

The complete show notes available here.

The Best Podcast Promotion Channel

• Mary's unique perspective comes from her performance background. Every decision she makes is data-driven.
• Generally speaking, keeping users on the platform where they hear/see the ad makes for higher conversion rates.
• Keeping listeners within the podcast medium reduces friction.
• Thus, Podcast-to-podcast promotion is the most effective channel to promote your podcast
• Mary found that in-network cross-promotion is 10 times more effective than other types of campaigns, including ads on other platforms and podcast ad swaps.

Establishing Benchmarks

• Establishing benchmarks is crucial for measuring the success of podcast promotion campaigns. It allows for a deeper understanding of conversion rates and helps allocate ad spend effectively.
• Due to the unique nature of each podcast show (different genres, storylines, talent, etc.), benchmarks need to be set on a show-by-show basis.
• Mary's team sets these benchmarks based on various factors such as talent, show uniqueness, and potential for scaling.
• For instance, the presence of notable talent on a show is expected to increase conversion rates.
• On top of the show-by-show approach, Mary uses weighted averages to identify acceptable and unacceptable ranges of cost per download and guide future spending decisions.
• While smaller audiences may have higher engagement rates, achieving scale is necessary for sustained growth.
• Finding the right balance between small audiences with high engagement and large-scale audiences with lower engagement is key.

How to decide on the right marketing spend based on your goals

• Establish benchmarks and goals to determine the appropriate marketing spend.
• Spending too little, like a mere $1,000, may result in limited impressions, low ad frequency and wrong assumptions about audience engagement.
• Investing in a higher spend allows for reaching a larger audience with the right message, frequency, and over time.
• According to Mary's analysis, reaching over 250,000 impressions in a 30-day period on the Realm network results in better conversion rates.
• The budget and goals of each campaign dictate the optimal spend and tactics to achieve desired results.

How to go about testing podcast networks

• Start by testing your own network and cross-promoting with smaller networks (no need for budget at this stage, ad swaps will do).
• Compare conversion rates to validate audience-podcast fit and establish benchmarks.
• Consider minimum spend requirements when scaling up to larger networks or utilizing programmatic resources.
• Prioritize collaborations and transparency with smaller networks to optimize conversion potential.

How to create ads that convert

• Fiction shows should focus on accessible angles that resonate with listeners.
• Leveraging recognizable talent, such as John Hamm, or highlighting the voice of the creator can capture attention.
• Make emotional connections and evoke curiosity within the limited timeframe of the ad.
• Transition listeners smoothly into your show or universe without jarring their audio experience. For instance, don't use "in a world where" type of ads when advertising fiction shows on a network specialized in fiction. This will only confuse listeners.

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Timestamps

1:50 How did the idea for the show come about?
4:20 Why is it important to have a podcast trailer?
7:10 What makes a great trailer? Practical tips on how to create a trailer or beefing up an existing one
9:23 What pieces of information should the trailer contain?
11:30 A/B testing your trailer
12:43 The no-nos of podcast trailers
15:19 I started my podcast without a trailer. Can I/Should I add one mid season?
18:44 Trailers without shows: how is this even possible?

How did the idea for the show come about?

• Arielle wanted to focus on discovering new podcasts and the concept of trailers intrigued her.
• She listened to trailers for every show listed in Apple Podcasts’ new and noteworthy section.
• She found that some trailers didn’t reflect the tone or content of the actual show.
• This led her to explore the idea of creating a show dedicated to podcast trailers.

Why is it important to have a podcast trailer?

• It forces the creator to distill the most important elements of the show into a short, enticing pitch.
• It allows the creator to mark the episode as a trailer, making it easily discoverable in podcast listening apps.
• It helps launch the show and populate the RSS feed, enabling early promotion and collaboration opportunities.

What makes a great trailer? Practical tips on how to create a trailer or beefing up an existing one.

Two approaches possible:

• In-universe trailer (using characters’ voices to tease the show).
• Producer-led trailer (introducing the show and its content).

A successful trailer should:

• mention the show’s name
• provide a glimpse into the show’s content
• highlight what listeners will gain
• mention the release date.

A/B testing your trailer

• Experiment with different versions of the trailer to see which one resonates better with the audience.
• Consider releasing two trailers using different approaches and analyzing the response to determine what works best.

The no-nos of podcast trailers

• Not introducing oneself or the show in the trailer.
• Poor audio quality in the trailer.
• Failing to match the tone and style of the trailer with the actual show.
• Leaving out important information such as the show’s name or release date.

I Started my podcast without a trailer. Can I/Should I add one mid-season?

• It’s not too late to create a trailer, even if you’re well into a season.
• A mid-season trailer can still attract new listeners and serve in feed drops to provide cross-promotion opportunities.
• Communicate with your audience transparently about the release of a mid-season trailer.

Trailers without shows: how is this even possible?

• Some trailers are created as proof of concept or to pitch the show for funding.
• They serve as a teaser to generate interest and support for the show’s production.
  

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Timestamps

1:31 What are the podcast metrics Shirley pays the most attention to
4:04 Social media metrics and using social media for creator and guest selection
15:12 Shirley’s podcast data collection, cleaning, and wrangling process
17:33 On the importance of staying up to date with industry benchmarks and creating your own benchmarks
20:55 Common mistakes and misconceptions around podcast data
24:55 On the impact of features on download numbers over time
30:47 On turning listeners into newsletter subscribers and using newsletters as an acquisition channel
34:33 Prioritizing the right channels
35:10 Cross-promotions: not such a great channel after all?
35:45 Pod People’s brand building and engagement boosting methodology

Key ideas:

Podcast Metrics Shirley pays the most attention to

• Building awareness and discoverability: downloads, unique listeners, chart rankings, and editorial submissions.
• Monitoring and increasing engagement: consumption rate, engaged listeners, and followers.
• Importance of tracking metrics against industry benchmarks and own show growth across seasons.

Social media metrics and using social media for creator and guest selection

• Social Media offers complimentary analytics for podcasting platforms.
• Importance of engagement rates for creator and guest selection.
• Shirley uses Grin, an influencer management tool, for tracking social media engagement.
• The sweet spot for engagement: creators with 10,000-50,000 followers.
• There’s a high correlation between creator engagement rates and podcast downloads.
• Engagement benchmarks: TikTok (18%), and Instagram (3%).

Pain Points in Podcast Analytics

• Lack of comprehensive analytics for decision-making and strategy.
• Challenges in aggregating and visualizing data for reporting and analysis.
• Difficulty in tracking the impact of specific marketing tactics, such as editorial submissions.

Shirley’s podcast data collection, cleaning, and wrangling process

• She uses various tools and platforms, including Megaphone, Apple, Spotify, and social media.
• No single source of truth but a composite picture from different dashboards.
• She cleans and wrangles the data with Excel formulas.
• Tracks podcast downloads and YouTube listens differently due to platform differences.
• Supplements data with surveys, pixels, and other sources when necessary.
• She doesn’t use visualization solutions like Looker or Tableau but gets reports directly from platforms.

On the importance of staying up to date with industry benchmarks and creating your own benchmarks

• Shirley keeps up with benchmarking reports from sources like Buzzsprout.
• Pod People works with 100+ shows, using aggregate data from different networks, clients, and industries.
• They set realistic benchmarks for different types of shows and seasons.
• They adapt strategies for different show formats (e.g., fiction, docu-style, interview chat shows).
• They use data and knowledge from platforms to inform future strategies.

Common mistakes and misconceptions around podcast data

• Not setting up data capturing infrastructure (e.g., a prefix for historical data).
• Clients are often unaware of platforms’ analytics tools, such as Spotify for podcasters and Apple Podcasts Connect.
• Using vanity metrics (downloads) instead of true engagement metrics, such as the completion rate and follower/listener ratio.
• Downloads can be easily manipulated (e.g., through bots and paid ads).
• The focus should be on audience resonance, community building, and actual traction.

Full show notes available here

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Show notes:

Timestamps

1:08 Tips for broadcasters entering the podcast space
07:32 How to establish relationships with podcast platforms
12:01 On specialization within podcast marketing teams
15:01 How to develop your podcast audience on a budget
18:15 PR as a podcast marketing channel
25:57 On turning things around when your audience growth is stalling
30:00 Podglomerate’s podcast launch/takeover framework

Tips for broadcasters entering the podcast space

– Linear content doesn’t always translate well to podcasting.
– Linear radio listeners tend to skew older. Podcast audiences are younger and more diverse. This should inform the content strategy across channels. You can’t just recycle content.
– Radio and podcasts tend to be consumed at different times. This dictates the ideal time to release episodes. Radio consumption peaks during breakfast and commute, but it’s totally different for on-demand audio.
– Radio has more constraints: it must be produced for precise time blocks. There are regulations about the type of content that can be broadcasted.
– Example of radio content repackaging for podcasting: offer raw/uncensored interviews in a podcast format and encourage listeners to check out that long-form content. This is a great way to re-engage with your audience, get them to consume more of your content, and anchor on-demand in their habits.
– Podcasts and smart speakers take a growing share of the audio pie. Broadcasters must train their radio audience to follow them and find them elsewhere.

How to establish relationships with podcast platforms

– Think about what you can give to your cross-promotional partners. It’s a two-way street.
– Identify your entry points at these companies.
– How? Search on LinkedIn (looking for people working on the editorial team at Apple Podcasts, for instance).
– Once you’ve identified the right contact person, do your research to find the common interest, the commonality.
– You can also offer to assist them with something they’re working on.
– Find the unique angle about your shows that will spark the editorial team’s interest (see Pride Month for Private Parts).

Resources to do your research:
– Podcast newsletters like Podnews & Inside Podcasting.
– Listen to podcasts on podcasting.
– Follow podcast influencers on Twitter.
– Maybe the people you want to connect with are thought leaders. They might publish content like articles and blog posts or appear as speakers in webinars and conferences.

– Free options to reach out: LinkedIn or Twitter DMs
– Rocketreach is a great paid option to find the contact info of relevant people at these organizations if you want to send emails.

Three important points:
– Reach out in an authentic way
– Don’t spam. You don’t want to “yell in their inbox for attention.”
– These relationships take time to build. Start networking now.

On specialization within podcast marketing teams

– In 2014, Babbel already had someone in charge of the relationship with app stores
– As the podcast industry matures, similar functions start to appear in podcast marketing teams
– As mentioned, building these relationships takes time. A shortcut consists of working with agencies like Podglomerate and leveraging the existing relationships they have built with major podcast platforms.

How to develop your podcast audience on a budget

Answers from previous episodes:
– promo swaps
– submitting your show to Castbox and Overcast
– Leveraging your assets: social media accounts, your newsletter

Joni’s take:
– Where is your audience going for news, information, and entertainment? You must first identify and research your ideal listener (age, region, interest). This will determine your marketing strategy.
– Even if you don’t have a marketing budget, you’re still investing your time, so spend it wisely.
– PR.

More on PR and podglomerate's podcast launch framework available here:
https://voxalyze.com/resources/podcast/pr-podcast-marketing-channel-joni-deutsch?