After years of letting our old Patreon quietly collect dust, we’re excited to officially announce that The Deconstructionists Podcast now has a fully rebuilt Patreon — with brand new tiers, fresh content, and one beloved classic perk we kept just for you.

This podcast has always been — and still is — 100% independent. We cover the costs out of pocket, not because it’s easy, but because we believe in the conversations we’re having and in the community that’s grown around this work. Your emails, messages, and stories are what keep us going.

• Brand new Patreon hub
• Updated support tiers
• Long-form educational video content
• Extended versions of topics you may have seen on TikTok
• Resources and references to go deeper
• And more exclusive content on the way

The short-form clips you see on social media are just the beginning — on Patreon, we take the time to slow down, provide full context, and really explore the questions beneath the surface.

Whether you’re a brand new supporter or someone who’s been with us for years, we cannot thank you enough. As we approach our 10-year anniversary, we have some special surprises planned to celebrate with you.

You can support the show and join our Patreon:

• Through the link here: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast
• Or on our website at thedeconstructionists.org

More interviews, deeper dives, and exciting new content are already in the works for the year ahead.

Thank you for being part of this journey with us.

— The Deconstructionists Podcast

In this second half of John’s conversation with Pastor Joe Ingle, we continue exploring the deeply human, often heartbreaking realities of prison ministry — particularly Joe’s decades of work with individuals on death row.

If Part 1 introduced the calling and contours of his work, Part 2 steps fully into the emotional, spiritual, and ethical complexities of walking with people whom society has condemned and often forgotten. Joe shares stories from his time working with incarcerated individuals, the end-of-life moments he has witnessed, the failures and blind spots of our justice system, and the surprising ways grace and humanity still break through in the darkest circumstances.

This is not a conversation about abstract theology or distant policy — it’s about presence, dignity, and the costly practice of seeing people when no one else does.

👉 Joe’s experiences accompanying individuals through their final days and hours

👉 What capital punishment looks like from the inside — spiritually, emotionally, and practically

👉 The toll this work takes on families, communities, and those who minister in these spaces

👉 How systemic failures and racial inequities shape incarceration and sentencing

👉 The difficult conversations Joe has had with death row inmates — and the moments that stay with him

👉 The theological and moral implications of state-sanctioned execution

👉 Why Joe believes presence, not answers, is the most powerful form of ministry

👉 How his experiences have shaped his own understanding of justice, mercy, and the Gospel

Pastor Joe’s work forces us to confront the human cost of our justice system — not through statistics or talking points, but through stories of real people with real families, real trauma, and real hope.

His ministry challenges us to consider:

• What does justice actually mean?
• What does mercy look like when lives hang in the balance?
• What does faith ask of us when the systems around us fail?
• And how do we honor the humanity of those our society has discarded?

These questions aren’t easy — but they’re necessary. And Joe brings decades of lived experience to help us wrestle with them.

Pastor Joe Ingle is a long-time prison minister, author, activist, and advocate for people on death row. For decades he has been a steady presence for individuals facing execution, providing pastoral care, support, and companionship in some of the most difficult circumstances imaginable. His work has shaped national conversations on criminal justice reform and continues to call the Church toward deeper compassion and accountability.

If you missed the first half of this conversation — including the origin of Joe’s calling and the stories that shaped his approach to justice — be sure to listen to Part 1.

If this episode resonates with you, you can help support the podcast by:

🔥 Leaving a 5-star review

🔥 Sharing this episode with a friend

🔥 Following us on social media

🔥 Subscribing so you don’t miss future interviews

Your support helps new listeners find the show and keeps conversations like this possible.

In this long-awaited and nearly lost conversation, John sits down with Pastor Joe Ingle, a longtime prison minister, advocate, and spiritual companion to people on death row. Joe’s work challenges our assumptions about justice, punishment, compassion, and what it means to show up for people society has thrown away.

This interview was recorded last year and was almost lost forever when the laptop it was saved on died unexpectedly. Miraculously, the file was recovered just in time — and we are finally able to share Part 1 of this important two-part conversation.

Following our recent episode with Chaplain Kerstin Hedlund, who offered insight into spiritual care within the military, Joe continues our exploration of ministry in difficult, often unseen places — where grief, hope, and humanity collide in profound ways.

In Part 1, we cover:

• Joe’s early call to prison ministry
• How he became involved with individuals facing execution
• What it actually looks like to walk with someone on death row
• The spiritual, emotional, and human complexities of prison chaplaincy
• How society frames “criminals” — and what we miss when we refuse to see their humanity
• The cost of compassion, and why Joe refuses to turn away
• Why faith traditions often struggle to handle justice and mercy well
• The surprising places Joe has seen grace show up behind bars

Joe’s work invites us to confront just how uncomfortable — and necessary — compassion can be. His stories shine light on systems we rarely see and raise hard questions about accountability, punishment, redemption, and what Christian faith looks like when lived out in the shadows.

For listeners who appreciated our recent conversation with Chaplain Kerstin Hedlund, Joe’s perspective provides a powerful complement. Together, their episodes explore ministry in spaces most people never encounter, each revealing a different facet of what deep presence and care look like.

Pastor Joe Ingle has spent decades ministering to incarcerated individuals across the United States, particularly those on death row. His work centers on accompaniment, advocacy, and restoring dignity to people society has deemed irredeemable. Joe is also an author and activist committed to criminal justice reform and the abolition of the death penalty.

Grab a copy of Joe's book, "Too Close to the Flame: With the Condemned inside the Southern Killing Machine."

If this episode resonates with you, please consider:

• Sharing it with a friend
• Leaving a 5-star review
• Supporting the podcast on Patreon
• Following us on Instagram, X, TikTok, and YouTube

Your support helps new listeners find these important stories.

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Army Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Kerstin Hedlund. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, we recommend starting there for context.

Kerstin has spent years serving alongside soldiers in moments of grief, trauma, transition, and deep personal struggle. Her work isn’t about offering easy answers. It’s about presence, listening, and holding space for real human complexity.

This conversation is for anyone who has wrestled with suffering, loss, or disillusionment. It’s also for those who care deeply about someone who has served.

Kerstin’s insight offers a grounded and deeply humane perspective on what it means to stay present with one another through the hardest parts of life.

If you’d like to explore more about topics mentioned in this episode:

• “Soul Repair: Recovering from Moral Injury After War” – Rita Nakashima Brock & Gabriella Lettini
• The Moral Injury Project – Syracuse University
• VA National Center for PTSD: https://www.ptsd.va.gov
• Military Chaplaincy Overview: https://www.goarmy.com/chaplain

• Website: thedeconstructionists.org
• Instagram: @deconstructionistspodcast
• X (Twitter): @deconstructcast
• Support the show: patreon.com/deconstructionists

In this two-part conversation, John sits down with Pastor Kerstin Hedlund, a U.S. Army Chaplain whose story offers a rare window into what faith looks like when it’s lived out in the hardest and most human places.

From her path into military chaplaincy to the deep questions that arise in the presence of trauma and moral injury, Kerstin’s perspective brings theology down to earth — into barracks, hospitals, and battle zones — where hope, compassion, and grief often collide.

Together they explore what it means to serve others in a system defined by hierarchy and discipline, how empathy and faith can survive amid loss, and why doubt and mystery might actually make us more compassionate people.

Pastor Kerstin’s story reminds us that faith isn’t tested in seminaries or sanctuaries — it’s tested in the trenches of real life. Her honesty about doubt, fatigue, and renewal challenges the neat formulas we often attach to belief and invites us toward something deeper, more embodied, and more human.

🎧 Available wherever you get your podcasts.

🔗 More episodes at TheDeconstructionists.com

📸 Instagram — @thedeconstructionistspodcast

🐦 X / Twitter — @deconstructcast

☕ Patreon — Join for bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes discussions, and community Q&As

Episode: Hell, the Devil, and Atonement Theories

What exactly do Christians mean when they talk about hell? Where did the idea of the devil come from, and why does it look so different across the Bible? And why are there so many different theories of atonement—Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection—when most of us only ever hear one?

In this episode, we dig deep into the history, language, and theology behind three core ideas that have shaped Christianity for centuries:

• Hell – from Sheol and Gehenna in the Hebrew Bible to Dante’s Inferno and modern evangelical preaching.
• The Devil – tracing the figure from the Hebrew Bible’s “accuser” to the cosmic enemy of God in later Christian thought.
• Atonement Theories – surveying models from Christus Victor to Moral Influence to Penal Substitution, and asking how these different views reveal the diverse ways Christians have tried to understand salvation.

This conversation explores how these concepts developed over time, why they remain so influential, and what happens when we step back to ask whether we’ve been handed the whole story.

If you want to dive deeper, here are some books and articles we recommend:

• Edward Fudge – The Fire That Consumes
• Robin Parry – The Evangelical Universalist
• Jerry L. Walls – Hell: The Logic of Damnation

• Elaine Pagels – The Origin of Satan
• Henry Ansgar Kelly – Satan: A Biography
• Archibald Robertson – The Devil: His Origin and His Fall

• Gustaf Aulén – Christus Victor
• N.T. Wright – The Day the Revolution Began
• Fleming Rutledge – The Crucifixion: Understanding the Death of Jesus Christ
• Tony Jones – A Better Atonement (shorter, accessible resource)

• Bart Ehrman – Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife
• C. S. Lewis – The Great Divorce (a classic imaginative take, though not academic)
• The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entries on “Hell,” “Satan,” and “Atonement” (for an open-access scholarly overview).

• Website: thedeconstructionists.org
• Instagram & X: @deconstructcast

Special music by Forrest Clay from the Recover EP

In this episode, John takes on a question that’s been floating around the public conversation for years — often asked with fear, frustration, or misunderstanding: Is deconstruction a bad thing?

After years of listening to the debate unfold online and in church spaces, it felt like time to finally respond. This conversation is part of our current series tackling some of the most frequently requested topics from listeners — and few have come up as often as this one.

John explores what “deconstruction” actually means, why so many people are drawn to it, and how it’s often mischaracterized by those who haven’t walked through it. From faith crises to intellectual honesty, this episode invites listeners to see deconstruction not as the end of faith, but as a deeply human and often necessary process of growth.

• Why the term “deconstruction” has become controversial
• How faith communities have responded — and why many get it wrong
• The philosophical roots of deconstruction (Derrida, Foucault, and beyond)
• Why deconstruction doesn’t equal destruction
• The emotional and spiritual side of rethinking belief
• Rebuilding after the unraveling — what comes next
• Listener questions: “Can you come back from deconstruction?”

• Deconstruction isn’t rebellion — it’s reflection.
• Asking hard questions doesn’t destroy faith; it refines it.
• Healthy faith can withstand curiosity, doubt, and nuance.
• The goal isn’t to tear down belief, but to let go of what’s untrue so that something more honest can take root.

• Books & Articles
• Faith After Doubt — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)
• The Sin of Certainty — Peter Enns (Amazon)
• The Great Spiritual Migration — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)
• Out of Sorts — Sarah Bessey (Amazon)
• Theology in the Raw — “Is Deconstruction a Bad Thing?” podcast episode (theologyintheraw.com)
• Essays & Think Pieces
• “Deconstruction Is Not the Enemy” — Sojourners Magazine
• “When Faith Falls Apart: Why Deconstruction Can Be Holy” — Relevant Magazine
• “The Difference Between Deconstruction and Destruction” — Religion News Service
• Follow the Conversation
• Instagram
• X / Twitter
• thedeconstructionists.com

Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.

👉 Don’t forget to leave a review and share the episode with someone who’s wrestling with their faith journey.