What actually drives agency growth when pipelines are noisy, buyers are skeptical, and everyone sounds the same?

In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Alex Marshall, a longtime agency growth leader with two decades of experience across holding companies and independents, to unpack what really moves the needle. They explore why trust and relevance matter more than tactics, how storytelling shows up late in the sales cycle, and why relationships compound over time even when results aren’t immediate.

This is a grounded conversation about growth as a discipline, not a hack.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The real differences between growth at holding companies vs independents
• Why agency specialization can both help and hurt sales
• How storytelling works after the first sales call
• Why “just checking in” emails fail
• What actually reactivates dormant or boomerang clients
• How to stay relevant to skeptical CMOs
• Why relationship-building beats short-term metrics
• How agencies should think about referrals and alliances

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Alex’s background and global agency experience
04:30 – Holding companies vs independents: growth tradeoffs
06:00 – Relationship-building across regions and cultures
10:20 – When specialization helps — and when it limits you
16:45 – Storytelling as a sales tool, not just marketing
20:40 – Coalition-building in complex B2B sales
23:30 – Re-engaging dormant and boomerang clients
26:40 – Why timing and relevance matter more than frequency
29:20 – Managing time across the full funnel
32:10 – Measuring progress without over-relying on metrics
35:00 – Selling to skeptical CMOs in uncertain markets
38:00 – Why referrals and trust compound over time
41:00 – Strategic partnerships and being “something to someone”
45:45 – Making referral asks easier — and more effective

What if the agencies that crush Q1 aren't working harder in January, they're making one or two critical decisions right now, in December?

In this solo episode, Dan reveals why Q1 consistently catches agencies off-guard and what separates those who stumble into the new year from those who hit the ground running. The secret isn't about working through the holidays or setting ambitious goals—it's about installing a systematic referral system during Q4's quieter moments.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why trust, not awareness, became the scarce resource after 2020 and how it changes your approach
• The four stages agencies move through and how to identify which phase you're stuck in
• The "high school gym vs. NFL stadium" test for choosing the right lead generation strategy based on market size
• How to structure connector calls to get 2-5 quality referrals from a single conversation
• The simple human emotion that makes people actually follow through on promised introductions
• A two-pronged outreach system that keeps your pipeline full even when you're buried in client work
• Why making it easier for people to help you eliminates the awkwardness of asking for referrals
• The one free data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platforms

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: The strange Q4 gap period and what's coming
• [02:33] The Cobbler's children phase and why most agencies get stuck there
• [05:00] The four stages of agency growth and how they're detached from revenue
• [09:15] The 2020 trust recession and why cold outreach stopped working
• [12:30] High school gym vs. NFL stadium: Choosing the right strategy for your market
• [16:45] The systematic referral framework: How to generate warm intros weekly
• [21:20] Structuring connector calls to get 2-5 referrals per conversation
• [24:10] The emotional game changer that makes introductions actually happen
• [27:17] Common objections: "This seems like too much work" and "I'm worried about asking for help"
• [29:35] How this scales beyond your initial network (sprint, jog, run phases)
• [31:54] The Referral Engine Program and Referral Network Diagnostic offer

Quotes:

"A lot of agencies end up in level two, which we call the Cobbler's children phase. They have a track record, they've produced results for clients, but new business is very reactive—it's very much catch as catch can." — Dan Englander

"After 2020, we saw a massive shift. Trust became the scarce resource, not awareness. Everyone's inbox is full, everyone's LinkedIn is saturated, and people have gotten really good at tuning out anything that feels like cold outreach." — Dan Englander

"If you're getting on a call a day—like an apple a day keeps the doctor away—or five calls a week, that is usually more than enough to hit 99% of sales goals." — Dan Englander

If you’re planning your 2026 biz dev strategy without real market data, you’re guessing. In this episode, I talk with friend of the show Nicholas Petroski, founder of Promethean Research and creator of the Digital Agency Referral Playbook, about what the numbers actually say—and how top agencies are using referrals, account growth, and GTM clarity to build next year’s plan. This is the clearest look you’ll get at what’s really moving the needle heading into 2026.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The referral trends shaping 2026 pipeline planning
• Why most agencies misread pipeline health
• What data actually predicts account growth
• The role of referrals in a tighter 2026 GTM
• Who should really own the referral process
• How to identify your most valuable connectors
• Why “good work” isn’t enough to drive intros
• What the best shops are fixing before January

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Why 2026 planning requires real data
01:02 – Nick’s new research & why referrals matter now
03:11 – From Random to Repeatable: core findings
05:45 – Why agencies still handle referrals passively
07:29 – The shrinking TAM + rising skepticism problem
09:22 – Who should own referrals (and who shouldn’t)
12:40 – Cross-sell models that actually grow accounts
14:36 – Pipeline health vs conversion vs system health
18:07 – How to operationalize intros without friction
23:59 – The risk of relying on 1–2 referral sources
27:26 – Why referrals must be part of your GTM
29:15 – The mindset shift from “salesy” to consultative
33:00 – What the data says agencies must fix for 2026

🔑 Key Quotes

📢 Links and Resources

From Random to Repeatable: How Agencies Turn Referrals into a Reliable Growth Engine

If you want a repeatable referral system heading into 2026, grab my book 📘 Relationship Sales at Scale