What does it take to build a high-stakes litigation firm that wins without Big Law scale while staying lean, values-driven, and firmly in control of its future?

Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg speak with Natasha Harrison, founder and managing partner of Pallas Partners, about what it takes to rethink the traditional law firm model from the ground up. Natasha shares why she left Big Law to build a focused litigation boutique rooted in senior judgment, clarity, and results rather than size or leverage. The conversation challenges the assumption that growth and prestige come from scale, offering a sharper view of what sophisticated clients actually value today.

At the heart of the discussion is deliberate design. Natasha explains why culture must be set from day one and why discipline around growth protects both people and performance. They explore the tension between expansion and identity, raising thoughtful questions about limits, leadership, and the risks of drifting into the middle ground between boutique and Big Law. The takeaway is clear: focus is a strategic advantage.

The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on leadership and longevity. Natasha reflects on resilience, trust, and building a firm that can thrive beyond its founder, while Chris and Howard draw out insights on technology, succession planning, and the changing definition of success in law. Change is inevitable, and those who lead with intention are best positioned for what comes next.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Rethinking the Big Law Model

02:39 Designing Culture in a Boutique Firm

09:05 Resilience and Entrepreneurial Leadership

11:50 What Sophisticated Clients Value

14:02 High-Stakes Litigation in Volatile Markets

16:55 Technology and the Future of Legal Teams

22:10 Leadership, Succession, and Longevity

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A leader who built his career on high-stakes investigations shares how those experiences now shape the culture, standards, and direction of a top litigation firm.

Matthew L. Schwartz, Chair of Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, joins Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg to talk about what it takes to lead a litigation-first firm without losing the sharpness that defines its work. He reflects on a decade in the Southern District of New York, where cases tied to General Motors, the U.S. Department of the Treasury, and the fallout from Bernie Madoff shaped his views on judgment, clarity, and what clients actually want from their lawyers.

Matthew explains why the firm gives young lawyers real responsibility early on and why senior lawyers thrive with the autonomy to build their practices without heavy bureaucracy. He also digs into the decisions that matter most right now: where to grow, how to align with client needs, and what pressures like AI, rising litigation costs, and outside capital mean for a disputes-only practice.

The conversation circles back to a central question for any leader in high-stakes litigation: how do you build a firm where people think boldly, act with integrity, and stay committed to excellence when the pressure is highest? Matthew makes the case that culture, mentorship, and trust still carry the most weight.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Matthew L. Schwartz's Path From Federal Prosecutor to Firm Chair

06:05 Lessons From High-Profile Cases and Complex Investigations

12:02 How Boies Schiller Flexner LLP Develops and Retains Top Legal Talent

15:01 AI, Technology, and the Future of Litigation

18:03 Private Equity and the Changing Law Firm Model

24:04 Mentorship and Developing the Next Generation of Trial Lawyers

29:45 Personal Insights and Matthew's Outlook on the Future of Law

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The legal industry is racing toward new business models, and Trisha Rich offers a grounded view of what that shift actually requires.

As a partner at Holland & Knight and a professor at New York University School of Law, she works at the center of the conversations driving MSO growth, ABS experimentation, and rising interest from Private Equity. Firms want support, investors want a foothold, and everyone wants clarity on where the ethical lines sit. Trisha argues that the answers are far less mysterious than people think. Independence, fee structures, and client protection still define the boundaries, and decades of opinions already show how to navigate them.

She also speaks to the momentum behind this moment. AI pressure, shifting talent expectations, and a clear push for stronger business models have created an environment where MSO and ABS structures feel less experimental and more inevitable. Her perspective invites firms to ask sharper questions: what kind of growth makes sense, which investments matter most, and how do you protect the heart of the profession while modernizing it? The conversation offers a clear read on a fast-evolving space and a thoughtful look at how regulation and innovation shape each other inside modern legal practice.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 The MSO and ABS Shift in the Legal Industry

04:26 How Rule 5.4 Shapes Modern Law Firm Models

11:19 Historical Precedent That Explains Today's MSO Boom

21:27 Law Firms, Business Strategy, and the Push for Scale

26:19 Why Private Equity Now Targets Legal Services

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm