What happens when we stop seeing the mind as a computer and start seeing it as an emergent, relational system? In this episode, Erric sits down with Amy Cohen Varela, Chairperson of Mind & Life Europe, to discuss the past, present, and future of contemplative science.

Recorded following their meeting at the European Summer Research Institute (ESRI) at Gomde, this episode moves beyond the "history" of the Mind & Life Institute to explore what these teachings mean for us today. Amy shares her unique perspective on:

• The Origin Story: Witnessing the first meeting in Dharamsala between Francisco Varela and the Dalai Lama.
• Enactivism Today: Why the "mind-as-computer" metaphor fails and how consciousness truly emerges.
• The Science of Kindness: How "Ethical Know-How" turns abstract philosophy into a lived, compassionate presence in the world.

Join us for an Amy-centric look at the intersection of deep science and the kind heart.

Amy Cohen Varela is Chairperson of the Mind & Life Europe Board and involved with Mind and Life since its inception. She is also a clinical psychologist specialized in psychodynamic therapy and philosophy. Amy studied comparative literature at Brown and Columbia Universities before moving to Paris in the early '80s, where she received her degree in clinical psychology at the University of Paris 7, with a specialty in psychodynamic theory and practice, and in parallel, completed psychoanalytic training.
Click https://mindandlife-europe.org/european-summer-research-institute-esri/ for information about the next ESRI at Gomde in Austria
You can find more about Mind & Life Europe at: https://mindandlife-europe.org/

Today on the Kind Heartfulness Podcast, we're honored to welcome Barbara Bogatin — a world-class cellist and long-time practitioner of Buddhist meditation. A member of the San Francisco Symphony since 1994, Barbara's musical career has taken her from the stages of the New York Philharmonic and the Metropolitan Opera to intimate chamber ensembles across the world.
But Barbara's path is more than music. She's also a dedicated student of Buddhism, with over three decades of Vipassana practice and deep study of the Dharma. Her lifelong meditation practice deeply informs not just how she plays, but how she lives — and teaches.
Together with her husband, neuroscientist Clifford Saron, she leads workshops like "The Buddha, the Brain, and Bach," weaving together insights from Buddhist contemplative traditions, neuroscience, and the art of performance.
In today's episode, Barbara reflects on how mindfulness and Dharma practice have shaped her as a musician, a teacher, and a human being — and how we can all bring more presence and compassion into our own lives.

You can find out more about Barbara at here website: https://www.barbarabogatin.com/home

Scroll down the page to find out about her upcoming workshops such as The Buddha, the Brain and Bach or Mindfulness for Musicians.