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Rhonda Patrick is a scientist, health educator, and host of the FoundMyFitness podcast whose work explores the intersection of nutrition, aging, and disease prevention. In this episode, Rhonda joins Peter for part two of his deep dive on protein, continuing last week’s discussion with David Allison and expanding the conversation to include creatine supplementation and sauna use. She discusses why the current RDA for protein is insufficient, how much more is needed to maintain muscle mass and prevent frailty, how activity level and aging influence protein requirements through mechanisms such as anabolic resistance, and how to determine optimal protein intake. The conversation also covers creatine’s proven effects on strength, endurance, and performance; its overlooked benefits for cognition and brain health; and the optimal dosing for different populations. Rhonda closes with the science behind sauna use, including its cardiovascular and cognitive benefits, the role of heat shock proteins, and practical guidance on temperature and duration.

We discuss:

• Why the current protein RDA is too low, and why maintaining sufficient amino acid intake is vital for muscle preservation and health [3:30];
• The case for raising the protein RDA by at least 50% [9:45];
• Anabolic resistance: why inactivity—more than aging—blunts the body’s response to protein, and how resistance training restores it [14:00];
• How sarcopenia develops, the profound effect of frailty on quality of life, and why it’s crucial to build and maintain muscle early [20:00];
• Finding the optimal protein dose [25:00];
• Why aiming higher is smarter: the case for targeting 2g of protein per kg of body weight in the real world [32:15];
• Protein needs for pregnant women and growing adolescents [37:30];
• Why higher protein intake is crucial when trying to lose fat while preserving or gaining muscle [39:45];
• GLP-1 drugs: protein needs, muscle preservation, dosing strategies, evidence of broader health impacts, and more [43:45];
• How overweight individuals should calculate protein needs based on target body weight [50:45];
• Unpacking a misunderstood topic: the relationship between protein intake, mTOR activation, and longevity [52:00];
• Why it’s unclear whether rapamycin is geroprotective in humans, and how misinterpreted animal data have fueled misconceptions about protein or mTOR activation being harmful [1:00:45];
• The unmatched longevity benefits of exercise, its synergy with higher protein intake, and
• Peter’s recommended protein intake [1:06:15];
• How Rhonda became fascinated with creatine—a well-studied, safe, and effective supplement for improving exercise performance [1:09:00];
• Creatine for the brain: how higher doses may enhance cognition under stress and support resilience against aging and disease [1:16:30];
• Optimal creatine use: dosing for adults and teens, safe product selection, debunking kidney myths, and more [1:25:45];
• Sauna: how deliberate heat exposure mimics exercise, boosts cardiovascular and brain health, and shows promise for improving mood and mental resilience [1:32:15];
• The benefits of sauna for reducing risk of dementia, and why hotter may not be better [1:41:15];
• The FoundMyFitness podcast [1:45:30]; and
• More.

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David Allison is a world-renowned scientist and award-winning scientific writer who has spent more than two decades at the forefront of obesity research. In this episode, David joins for his third appearance on The Drive to bring clarity to one of the most contentious topics in modern nutrition—protein. He explores the historical pattern of demonizing macronutrients, the origins and limitations of the RDA for protein, and what the evidence really says about higher protein intake, muscle protein synthesis, and whether concerns about harm are supported by actual data. He also discusses the challenges of conducting rigorous nutrition studies, including the limits of epidemiology and crossover designs, as well as conflicts of interest in nutrition science and why transparency around data, methods, and logic matter more than funding sources. The episode closes with a discussion on processed and ultra-processed foods, the public health challenges of tackling obesity, and whether future solutions may depend more on drugs like GLP-1 agonists or broader societal changes. This is part one of a two-part deep dive on protein, setting the stage for next week’s conversation with Rhonda Patrick.

We discuss:

• The cyclical pattern of demonizing different macronutrients in nutrition and why protein has recently become the latest target of controversy [3:15];
• The origin and limits of the protein RDA: from survival thresholds to modern optimization [6:30];
• Trust vs. trustworthiness: why data, methods, and logic matter more than motives in science [13:30];
• The challenges of nutrition science: methodological limits, emotional bias, and the path to honest progress [17:15];
• Why the protein RDA is largely inadequate for most people, and the lack of human evidence that high protein intake is harmful [30:30];
• Understanding the dose-response curve for muscle protein synthesis as protein intake increases [45:15];
• Why nutrition trials are chronically underpowered due to weak economic incentives, and how this skews evidence quality and perceptions of conflict [48:15];
• The limitations and biases of nutrition epidemiology, and the potential role of AI-assisted review to improve it [56:15];
• The lack of compelling evidence of harm with higher protein intake, and why we should shift away from assuming danger [1:04:15];
• Pragmatic targets for protein intake [1:09:30];
• Defining processed and ultra-processed foods and whether they are inherently harmful [1:16:15];
• The search for a guiding principle of what’s healthy to eat: simple heuristics vs. judging foods by their molecular composition [1:25:00];
• Why conventional public health interventions for obesity have largely failed [1:38:15];
• Two ideas from David for addressing the metabolic health problem in society [1:42:30];
• The potential of GLP-1 agonists to play a large role in public health [1:46:30]; and
• More.

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In this special episode of The Drive, Peter addresses the recent headlines linking acetaminophen (Tylenol) use during pregnancy to autism in exposed children. Recognizing the confusion these claims have sparked among patients, listeners, and the broader public, Peter uses this episode to provide a framework for thinking critically about complex conditions and the research related to them. He highlights the dramatic rise in autism diagnoses over recent decades, noting that multifactorial conditions rarely have a single cause, and emphasizes the importance of resisting oversimplified explanations. Peter also stresses that humans are not naturally wired for scientific thinking, making disciplined frameworks like the Bradford Hill criteria essential for evaluating causality in epidemiology. Ultimately, he uses this framework to explore the evidence surrounding acetaminophen use during pregnancy and its potential link to autism.

We discuss:

• Laying the groundwork for this discussion, the rise in autism rates, and the value in using frameworks [1:00];
• The FDA pregnancy drug categories, where Tylenol falls within that framework, and a structured method for evaluating scientific evidence and causality [6:00];
• What exactly are the claims being made about acetaminophen and autism? [13:45];
• The increase in autism rates and why so many things are being linked to autism: the multiple comparisons problem [15:00];
• Evaluating the review paper that triggered the recent concern over acetaminophen and autism [21:45];
• Breaking down the largest studies on prenatal Tylenol exposure and autism: is there a causal link? [35:00];
• Why observational studies can’t prove causality, the role of confounding variables, and the importance of frameworks like the Bradford Hill criteria [43:30];
• Applying the Bradford Hill criteria: testing the case for Tylenol and autism [45:45];
• Putting it all together to answer the question: Does acetaminophen use during pregnancy increase the risk of autism? [56:15];
• If autism risk is overwhelmingly genetic, what explains the dramatic rise in autism diagnoses? [59:15];
• Other risk factors for autism: parental age, maternal health, environment, and where Tylenol fits in [1:09:15];
• Medication use during pregnancy: balancing risks, benefits, and FDA categories [1:15:15];
• Considerations for taking Tylenol during pregnancy [1:19:30];
• Final thoughts: critical thinking, balanced risk assessment, and the importance of context when evaluating medications like Tylenol during pregnancy [1:22:30]; and
• More.

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