What do they never tell you about becoming a product leader?

In this episode, we talk about the parts of moving from PM to Director that catch most people off guard. The quiet loss of being the hero. The awkward shift from working alongside peers to managing them. The moment when shipping features stops being the job and making decisions, saying no, and setting direction becomes the work.

We share real stories about what surprised us, what we got wrong early on, and what actually helped once the role changed. We also break down the difference between Principal and Director paths, what “executive presence” looks like in plain terms, and how to start preparing for leadership while you are still a PM.

If you are thinking about stepping into product leadership and want to know the parts no one puts in the job description, pull up a chair on the porch, listen closely, and learn before you leap.

Introduction and Podcast Overview
[00:00] episode framing - why PM vs Director thinking matters right now
[00:24] leadership context - setting expectations for role and identity shift

Defining Product Management Roles
[01:20] CEO myth - why PMs do not actually have authority
[02:11] decision limits - where PM influence really starts and stops

Product Manager and Director Role Differences
[03:23] altitude analogy - low vs high altitude product thinking
[03:46] horizon shift - short-term execution vs long-term strategy
[05:21] restaurant metaphor - waiter vs operator responsibilities

Transitioning from Product Manager to Director
[08:06] letting go - reduced customer closeness and hero work
[09:26] hero syndrome - why doing too much hurts directors
[10:23] recognition drop - fewer high fives, more responsibility

Leadership Challenges and Lessons Learned
[13:03] managing peers - boundaries change when friends become directs
[14:35] portfolio reality - deciding what does not get funded
[16:30] one-on-ones shift - talking systems, not just features

Director vs Principal Product Manager
[25:41] career fork - IC mastery vs people leadership
[29:18] money myth - similar comp, very different work
[30:17] principal role - scope without people management

Shifting Focus and New Perspectives
[31:10] persona change - users to buyers and executives
[33:16] politics reality - learning to play the game without being toxic
[36:07] motivation shift - finding joy in others’ success

Key Takeaways and Closing Remarks
[37:30] experience matters - no shortcut to leadership readiness
[38:38] incentives check - understanding what your company rewards
[39:45] humility required - growth demands changing how you think

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Product managers don’t just bring new products into the world. They move the needle on the business. In this episode, Todd Blaquiere and Ryan Cantwell sit down with multi-time Chief Product Officer David Nash to unpack what “moving the needle on the business” really means.

They cover how to connect product work to financial outcomes like ARR, EBITDA, and net revenue retention, why empathy is the secret to executive trust, and how to find business impact in the least glamorous places. David shares a story about retiring old on-prem software that saved his company $150 million, proving that the unsexy work might just be the most valuable.

If you’re trying to influence without authority or want your next roadmap conversation to land with the CFO, this episode will help you think, talk, and act in business terms that get results.

Pull up a chair on the porch, and learn how to turn product decisions into measurable business results.

Introduction and Setup
[00:00] Todd and Ryan introduce guest David Nash, a multi-time Chief Product Officer.
[00:57] David outlines the theme: how PMs can “move the needle” by linking product work to business results.

What It Means to Move the Needle
[01:55] Why product teams must focus on outcomes that matter to CEOs and investors.
[05:18] The question every executive asks: how does each dollar in R&D create revenue or profit?

From Product Metrics to Business Metrics
[06:39] Understanding the difference between product metrics (adoption, UX) and business metrics (ARR, churn, EBITDA).
[09:30] How to translate “product-speak” into “business-speak.”

Learning to Speak Finance
[10:40] Why every PM should understand basic financial metrics.
[12:33] David’s advice for learning the language of finance and knowing what “good” looks like.

The $150 Million Lesson
[15:55] David’s ADP story: retiring old software that saved $150 million.
[16:30] Why unglamorous work can have the biggest business impact.

Building Trust and Influence
[17:30] How empathy helps PMs earn executive trust.
[25:00] The power of sharing business goals with your team.
[31:00] Building cross-functional partnerships that drive results.

Final Takeaways
[34:30] Celebrate measurable wins and make impact visible.
[35:42] “Demand to know your business outcomes” — David’s closing advice.
[37:30] Todd and Ryan reflect on how they’ll apply the lessons.

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If you could see product management through a CEO’s eyes, would it change the way you lead? In this episode of the Product Porch, Todd Blaquiere and Joe Ghali sit down with Ben Clarke, former CEO of BetterRX, to explore what executive leaders look for in top-tier product managers.

Ben shares his journey from KPMG to Amazon to leading BetterRX through a product-led transformation. He opens up about why product management is the beating heart of an organization, how product managers can build trust and alignment with executives, and what it means to truly put the product team in a position to drive growth.

Whether you’re looking to build credibility at the leadership table or just trying to speak the CEO’s language, this conversation is packed with insight you can use right away.

Listen now to understand how executives think, and how to make your work matter to them. So pull up a chair, we can’t wait to see on the porch!

Introduction and Opening Remarks
[00:00] Episode intro – Joe and Todd introduce the discussion on seeing product management through a CEO’s eyes while welcoming guest, Ben Clarke, former CEO of BetterRX.
[00:25] CEO mindset – Ben explains that a CEO’s main job is growth and why PMs need to understand that.

Evolution of Product Management at BetterRx
[01:31] Early challenges – Ben shares how BetterRx operated without formal product management in its early days.
[02:38] Building a function – Ben describes the shift toward a data-driven, product-led organization.
[04:37] Failing fast – Ben talks about learning to iterate quickly and embed experimentation into culture.

Becoming a Product-Led Company
[05:42] Cultural shift – Ben reflects on the company value “there’s always a better way” and how it encouraged innovation.
[08:06] Product first – Ben outlines how product decisions guided marketing, sales, and customer experience.
[10:01] Reinforcing mindset – Todd recalls how daily routines and metrics kept the product-led culture strong.

Hiring and Leadership Lessons
[10:56] Finding leaders – Ben explains what he looked for when hiring the first VP of Product.
[12:52] Performance and values – Ben highlights why consistent results and cultural fit mattered most.
[15:11] Product drives growth – Ben positions product as central to strategy and revenue creation.

Building Executive Trust
[16:41] Expert alignment – Ben shares why CEOs rely on leaders who are experts in their domains.
[19:10] Healthy pushback – Ben encourages PMs to challenge decisions respectfully to find better answers.
[22:20] Trust through transparency – Ben advises staying open, sharing progress, and communicating results.
[23:34] Stay ahead – Ben urges PMs to anticipate needs and bring ideas before they’re asked.

Emotional Jobs to Be Done
[28:00] Understanding the CEO – Ben explains that CEOs want partners who help them grow the business.
[28:45] Speaking the language – Todd connects this to communicating strategy and aligning priorities effectively.

Key Takeaways and Closing Reflections
[30:30] Acting like a leader – Joe reminds PMs to propose solutions and lead with confidence.
[32:10] Building trust – Ben emphasizes that mutual respect and open dialogue make work faster and more rewarding.
[33:27] Final thoughts – Todd and Joe close by encouraging PMs to view their work through the CEO’s perspective.

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