In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, host Erica D’Eramo welcomes back Dr. Anthony Luévanos, leadership strategist and organizational development expert, for a powerful conversation on adaptive leadership and resilience.

Dr. Luévanos shares why resilience is more than just “toughing it out, "it’s about adaptability, self-awareness, and the ability to inspire teams through uncertainty. Together, Erica and Dr. Luévanos explore how leaders can embrace vulnerability, foster two-way communication, and build organizations that can bend without breaking.

Key themes include:

• The true definition of resilience in leadership—beyond grit and endurance.
• Common misconceptions that hold leaders back from being adaptive.
• How gender dynamics shape resilience in male-dominated workplaces.
• The role of emotional intelligence and vulnerability in resilient leadership.
• Lessons from extreme conditions, including the Stockdale Paradox and Viktor Frankl’s work.
• Why self-care and community are critical to avoiding burnout.

Whether you’re leading a team, an organization, or yourself through change, this episode offers actionable insights on cultivating resilience that lasts.

Episode Description:
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, host Erica D’Eramo is joined by Dr. Anthony Luévanos—an expert in leadership, coaching, and organizational development—to explore the powerful role of systems thinking in today’s complex work environments.

Together, they unpack what systems thinking really means, how it applies across industries, and why it’s essential for leaders who want to navigate change, foster collaboration, and drive meaningful results. From emotional intelligence to adaptive leadership, this conversation connects technical problem-solving with human-centered leadership in a compelling, practical way.

Whether you're leading a team, coaching executives, or rethinking your approach to organizational growth, this episode offers insight into how to see the bigger picture—and act with greater impact.

Topics covered include:

• What systems thinking is and how it applies to leadership
• Root causes vs. surface-level symptoms in problem-solving
• The intersection of coaching, engineering, and organizational development
• Emotional intelligence as a leadership competency
• Visualization tools like causal loop diagrams and mind maps
• Leading with adaptability in unpredictable systems
• Shifting from a mindset of knowing to one of learning

Guest Bio:
Dr. Anthony Luévanos is an educator, coach, and organizational development consultant with a passion for building effective, adaptive systems. With a background spanning school leadership, academic research, and cross-sector collaboration, Dr. Luévanos brings a systems lens to leadership development, helping individuals and organizations thrive in complexity.

Resources & References:

• Peter Senge, The Fifth Discipline
• Donella Meadows, Thinking in Systems
• Toyota Lean Manufacturing Principles

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Reconstructing Inclusion: Amri B. Johnson on Systems-Level DEI and Interdependence

Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, Erica D’Eramo is joined by Amri B. Johnson—epidemiologist, social capitalist, and CEO of Inclusion Wins—for a dynamic conversation on what it takes to build truly inclusive systems in organizations.

Drawing on his experience across public health, business strategy, and organizational design, Amri shares why many DEI efforts fall short—and how we can reconstruct them to be accessible, actionable, and sustainable. From the limits of representation to the power of interdependence, this episode offers a refreshing, systems-oriented perspective on inclusion.

What We Talk About:

• Amri’s personal and professional journey—from Topeka to Switzerland
• Interdependence as a foundational DEI principle
• Why inclusion must align with organizational purpose
• A case study on gender diversity and relational fitness in tech
• The difference between treatment vs. prevention in DEI
• How upstream approaches drive long-term culture change
• Why engaging with dissenters strengthens—not weakens—DEI efforts
• Practical ways to make DEI part of your organizational DNA

Resources & Mentions:

• Amri's book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable (affiliate link)
• Amri's Substack blog and podcast
• Amri's website: inclusionwins.com
• Find Amri on LinkedIn

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