Producer: Connor Begley

Guests: Mike Donahue, Mike Holden, Tony Alltrade

This week, Mid-Atlantic looks at what happens when the “rules-based international order” stops behaving like a system and starts behaving like a slogan. The conversation centres on the US seizure/extraction of Venezuela’s president and the eerie normalisation of an act that by the usual standards would be labelled rogue behaviour. From there, the panel widens the lens: spheres of influence, NATO’s credibility, Britain’s silence, and the uncomfortable possibility that “rogue state” is becoming a category defined by power, not principle.

• The “rules-based order” feels retired: how language about sovereignty and international law collapses when allies break it.
• Why Britain went quiet: the panel digs into the significance of Keir Starmer’s (and the UK government’s) muted response—and what that says about the “special relationship.”
• Foreign policy vs domestic distraction: is this about strategy (oil, BRICS, China/Russia influence), or a political smokescreen (Epstein files, domestic turmoil, midterms)?
• “Trump pushes until stopped”: the idea that boundary-testing is the method, not a side-effect.
• Greenland as the next anxiety: not just as a hypothetical, but as a test of whether NATO is a system with teeth or a club with vibes.
• Spheres of influence, back to the 19th century: are we sliding into a three-bloc world and if so, what replaces the pretence of universal rules?
• NATO: paper, system, or faith?: argument over whether annexation would shatter the alliance or merely bruise it.
• The “moral high ground” problem: what the West can and can’t say about Russia/Ukraine or China/Taiwan after a precedent like this.
• Can US institutions stop a rogue executive?: sharp disagreement on whether the military, courts, Congress, or wider civil society can meaningfully constrain Trump.
• Consequences if the order collapses: sanctions, trade wars, defence spending spikes, market shock, and realignment away from US leadership.
• A little football palate cleanser: Arsenal title optimism, Burnley survival nerves, Portsmouth loyalty, and a classic Mid-Atlantic sign-off.

• Ro: “If that doesn’t count as rogue behaviour, then the term has become meaningless.”
• Mike Donahue: “He’ll push and push and push boundaries until someone actually stops him.”
• Mike Holden: “Yes, any maniac looks strong. But that doesn’t mean they’re trustworthy.”
• Tony: “We’re almost having to reset… we have no semblance of what is right again.”
• On NATO/Europe’s response: “Very strongly worded diplomatic messages… very strongly worded.”

• What does a world look like when rules become optional?
• Who gets to break the rules and who gets punished for trying?
• If the old system is dead, what replaces it: blocs, spheres, or chaos?
• How does the West criticise Russia or China after this precedent?
• Is the real battle now internal to the US rather than international?

• Mike Donahue — (social: discussed on-air)
• Mike Holden — @MikeHolden42
• Tony (“Alltrade”) — @alltrade_ (Twitter) / Tony on the… / alt aLT (as mentioned)

The episode ends where it began: with disbelief, unease, and a running (and increasingly personal) disagreement between Ro and Donahue about whether anyone can stop Trump or whether the rest of the world is simply getting a late invitation to the chaos Americans have already been living through.

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