⚠️ CONTENT WARNING ⚠️

This episode contains discussion of suicide and grief related to suicide loss. We share personal stories about losing loved ones to suicide, which may be difficult or triggering for some listeners.

If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, please reach out for help:

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 (available 24/7 in the U.S.)

Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741

International Association for Suicide Prevention: https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/

You are not alone, and there is always help available. Your life matters.

We approach this topic with care and respect, but we understand it may not be appropriate for everyone at this time. Please prioritize your mental health and well-being.

—--

We're talking about death today - not in a morbid way, but in the honest, vulnerable way most people avoid their entire lives. Despite being friends for nearly 40 years, Jolene and I (Nicole) realized we'd never actually discussed death, dying, and what we believe comes after. So we decided to have that conversation. The one that makes most people uncomfortable but that everyone needs to have at some point.

Jolene's first confrontation with death came at 16 when her friend Stacy died by suicide - a traumatic event that shattered her worldview and taught her about grief's unexpected manifestations. My wake-up call was losing a college boyfriend, which propelled me to cherish life more acutely and ignited my awareness of life's fragility. Later, watching my mother disappear to dementia taught me that you can grieve someone long before their actual death. These experiences shaped how we each understand mortality and what matters most.

Our beliefs about what happens after death are different but lead to similar conclusions. Jolene, as a Catholic Christian, believes in heaven and eternal life - finding comfort in the idea that death is a transition, not an ending, and that even tragedy is part of God's plan. I don't subscribe to traditional heaven or hell, but I'm fascinated by the energy and signs that seem to accompany those who've passed. Whether those signs are real or just comfort my brain creates doesn't matter, they connect me to people I've lost and remind me that love endures.

Despite our different frameworks, we agree on what's fundamental: death is both universal and deeply personal. Talking about it openly diminishes fear's hold and brings us closer. We're urging you to have these conversations with people you love - discuss what you believe, what you fear, what you hope. Don't wait for the "right time" because there isn't one. The right time is now, before you're forced to have the conversation in a crisis.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Good for the Soul

Mo News

https://www.youtube.com/moshehnews

https://www.instagram.com/mosheh/?hl=en

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

We can’t believe it’s been a year! In this special episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) reflect on what it’s really like to launch a podcast across the political divide—sharing honest behind-the-scenes moments, favourite interviews, and the biggest surprises of our journey so far.

From tackling tough topics like gun policy and abortion to finding unexpected common ground, we’ve learned that real conversation rooted in curiosity and respect, matters more than ever. Highlights include our powerful interview with Monica Guzman and the joy (and chaos) of producing nearly 50 episodes.

Looking ahead to 2026, we’re excited about our dream guest list, more listener-requested topics, and even more in-person episodes. Most of all, we’re grateful for our growing community. Your questions, feedback, and willingness to engage keep us inspired.

What should we talk about next? Who do you want to hear from? Drop your ideas in the comments or reach out on social media. Here’s to another year of bold conversations, big laughs, and maybe a little less drama. Thanks for being part of our journey!

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

https://youtu.be/NO-JBTsLaJQ?si=CJXW8kgAWB0rrqPr

https://youtu.be/DqoLxk0-Yqk?si=DM8D1SI0bm3LW_UD

https://youtu.be/A7YWXtWFmUY?si=Fm46ebPKwhvS-t_k

https://youtu.be/80c6RbRn6uY?si=oiHHbdEkfqpDlIpU

https://youtu.be/CCX1dN1nmvQ?si=4mASIe3l1dHMwfUQ

https://youtu.be/5wtPeP8XwAk?si=ARDCTXaE1IebUvJ2

https://youtu.be/AbH8U7m5kos?si=kKFQIsybFSbhB1Zu

https://youtu.be/qydEt3wbPXQ?si=UNyUEa_LO-qpE4r6

https://youtu.be/f8uozb6VN9k?si=mDg9qxQCucuKB_fH

https://youtu.be/xkXscmE9l_s?si=uRXBula4h5qBgljI

https://youtu.be/V7Wyw5uZegc?si=qpUQ227NwkVwyB4T

https://youtu.be/qS2O1rgf2YM?si=FUcxIQ48ig-2YWW_

https://youtu.be/pBmP42Mmamw?si=qqCFona0O8B1d5N6

https://youtu.be/E-gH6CVSFGk?si=JkS2XMpUeK_BOS_Y

Independent News Sources:

https://www.mo.news/

https://www.readtangle.com/

https://san.com/

Good for the Soul:

The holiday season is here, and we're talking about what Christmas and Hanukkah mean to us, how we navigate the pressure and expectations, and why the spirit of the season matters more than perfect decorations or expensive gifts.

Jolene celebrates a traditional Christmas with stockings, a beautifully decorated tree, and all the festive cheer. I (Nicole) grew up celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah, experiencing the magic of Christmas morning and the ritual of lighting the menorah for eight nights. We both agree on the beauty of holiday decorations - whether it's stars or angels, menorahs or nativity scenes, there's something universally warming about homes lit up with festive spirit.

But let's be honest about the pressure. This is when people feel enormous expectations. Perfect decorations, elaborate meals, mountains of gifts. For families already struggling, the holidays can amplify stress instead of bringing joy. The pressure to buy, buy, buy can overshadow the actual spirit of giving from the heart. The most meaningful gifts often cost nothing; time, attention, presence, acts of service.

The holidays are what you make of them. It's okay if your decorations aren't Pinterest-perfect or you can't afford elaborate gifts. What matters is showing up for people you love, extending compassion to those struggling, and finding moments of genuine joy and connection. That's the real spirit of the season.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Jolene’s Sweater:

https://www.samsclub.com/

Sweets:

https://www.lifeloveandsugar.com/easy-lemon-bars-recipe/

https://www.loveandlemons.com/mexican-wedding-cookies/

https://onehotoven.com/pecan-tassies/

https://www.food.com/recipe/easy-homemade-almond-roca-106641

https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/food-cooking/recipes/a62334590/holiday-haystacks-recipe/

https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/best-sugar-cookies/

Christmas Movies:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356680/?ref_=fn_t_1

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038650/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110527/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319343/?ref_=fn_i_1

Good For The Soul:

https://www.instagram.com/rockyroaddoodles/?hl=en

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube:

After spending months dissecting politics, gun control, and the collapse of American democracy, we desperately needed a break. So today we're talking about the stuff that occupies more of our mental space than we’d care to admit: our pet peeves from everyday life and the tiny moments of joy that remind us life isn’t all bad. Because honestly, sometimes the person who won't get out of the left lane feels more urgent than foreign policy.

The mix of irritation and joy is what makes life entertaining. If everything was perfect, we'd have nothing to laugh about over coffee. If everything was terrible, we'd never get out of bed. The combination of the annoying drivers and the unexpected smiles, the language crimes and the perfect hugs - that's the whole human experience right there.

So here's our very official challenge: notice both. Notice what makes you irrationally annoyed, because those irritations are valid and often hilarious in hindsight. But also notice what brings you joy, because those moments are everywhere if you're paying attention. And maybe try to be someone else's "simple joy" today instead of their "why are people like this" story.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

News and Media: Tangle Newsletter: https://www.readtangle.com/

Podcast Content: Heavyweight Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heavyweight/id1150800298

Good for the Soul: Kaizen (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/thatskaizen/?hl=en

Product Reference: BrassCraft Hair Snake (Home Depot): https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-20-in-Plastic-Hair-Snake-BC00112/305468409

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

What if the advice to avoid talking about politics is actually making everything worse? In our first-ever guest interview, we sit down with Monica Guzman - author of "I Never Thought of It That Way," and advisor at Braver Angels to talk about how to have fearlessly curious conversations in dangerously divided times.

Monica doesn't sugarcoat it: America is fraying. Social media has made it easy to be incurious while feeling righteous, and "conflict entrepreneurs" are profiting off our division. But she believes the only way forward is to keep talking to each other, especially across disagreement.

Her advice for navigating political conversations - especially during the holidays: • Know what you're after: connection or persuasion?

• Step away from social media and have tough conversations face-to-face

• Ask "how" instead of "why" - invite people to share their story, not defend their position

• Remember that curiosity and grace are contagious

Monica shares a powerful story about bringing liberal Seattleites to meet conservative Oregon farmers. What they discovered: we're all terrible at estimating what the "other side" really thinks. Studies show both liberals and conservatives wildly overestimate support for extreme positions like political violence. The best intervention? Talking to real people, not caricatures.

Some argue America should split into "Divided States." Monica pushes back hard: that's a lie pushed by extremes for political gain. The truth? The more time we spend only with people who agree with us, the dumber we get. We need each other to make wise decisions for a healthy society.

Is there hope? Absolutely. The revolution isn't happening in halls of power - it's happening in living rooms, coffee shops, and podcasts. People choosing dialogue over dismissal are the real counterculture.

Monica leaves us with "sonder" - the realization that every person has a life as vivid and complex as your own. When we remember that, everything changes.

Read Monica's book "I Never Thought of It That Way" and join the movement toward fearless curiosity.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 - Introduction: Why We Talk Across Political Divides

00:21 - Meet Monica Guzman: Author of "I Never Thought of It That Way"

01:36 - Is America More Divided Than Ever?

03:14 - Social Media, Outrage, and the Curiosity Crisis

05:27 - How to Have Difficult Conversations With Family

08:09 - The Power of Curiosity and Grace in Bridge Building

09:49 - Why "How" Questions Work Better Than "Why"

11:57 - Breaking Down Misconceptions About the Other Side

14:16 - Monica’s Sherman County Project: Liberals Meet Conservatives

18:30 - What Urban and Rural America Can Learn From Each Other

21:58 - Are We Really Hopelessly Divided?

24:16 - Why We Need Each Other: The Beating Heart of Democracy

27:00 - Signs of Hope: The Revolution of Conversation

29:10 - Sonder: Seeing the Humanity in Everyone

30:53 - Would You Rather: Monica’s Game on Difference

33:44 - Final Thoughts and Thank You to Monica Guzman

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Connect with Monica:

https://www.moniguzman.com/book

https://braverangels.org/author/moniguzmangmail-com/

LINKS

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On Apple Podcasts:

There's a massive group of Americans we don’t talk enough about; people who work full-time, pay their taxes, and still can't afford basic necessities. They earn too much to qualify for government assistance but too little to actually survive. They're called ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed. And they represent 38 million households (29% of America). Combined with those below the federal poverty line, that's 55 million households, or 42% of the entire country, struggling to make ends meet.

I (Jolene) learned about ALICE through a friend who works for United Way, and honestly, it changed how I think about poverty in America. As a conservative, I've always believed in personal responsibility and hard work. But ALICE represents people who are doing everything right - working full-time jobs, showing up every day, contributing to society, and yet they still can't make ends meet. That's not a character failure. That's a system failure.

Nicole's perspective as a liberal aligns with mine on this more than you'd expect. She sees ALICE as proof that the social safety net has massive gaps. You can work full-time and still not afford childcare, housing, transportation, and healthcare. The federal poverty line is outdated and doesn't reflect the actual cost of living, which is exactly why United for ALICE created the Household Survival Budget. This is a metric that reflects the real minimum costs of necessities like housing, childcare, food, transportation, healthcare, and technology, plus taxes, adjusted for every county in the United States.

You can get involved with United for ALICE through their website at unitedforalice.org or through United Way in your state. You can donate, volunteer, or advocate for policies that support working families. You can also just start talking about this issue, because the first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it exists.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

United for ALICE:

https://www.unitedforalice.org/ United Way: https://www.unitedway.org/ United Way National Overview (Interactive Map): https://unitedforalice.org/national-overview#4.5/36.316/-95.842

Books: Abundance by Ezra Klein: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488

Good for the Soul:

Ezra Klein & Spencer Cox: https://youtu.be/WJB87niNCk0?si=o7alUusFQMsS1I-6

Social Media/Inspiration:

James Talarico (Instagram):

https://www.instagram.com/jamestalarico/?hl=en

Plumes Officiel (Instagram):

https://www.instagram.com/plumesofficiel/

Business Resources:

Mark Cuban MasterClass - Win Big in Business: https://www.masterclass.com/classes/win-big-in-business/chapters/win-big-in-business Mark

Cuban Cost Plus Drug...

Thanksgiving is supposed to be about gratitude, family, and great food - but with tensions running high in America, the holidays might feel more charged than usual. In this episode, we share how to actually enjoy Thanksgiving without avoiding meaningful conversation or ending up in a screaming match.

Growing up, our Thanksgivings looked different but felt the same: togetherness, gratitude, and way too much food. Now as adults with our own traditions and chosen families, we've learned something crucial: curiosity beats judgment every single time.

When someone says something you disagree with at the dinner table, what if you asked a genuine question instead of arguing? Questions that start with "how" instead of "why" invite conversation instead of confrontation. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that affect you personally? These questions create understanding instead of arguments.

Everyone is the protagonist in their own story, operating from their own experiences and values. When you approach conversations from that perspective, it's easier to listen without immediately judging.

This doesn't mean agreeing with everything or abandoning your boundaries. It means approaching disagreement with curiosity about how someone arrived at their position, rather than dismissing them.

We're proof that people with completely different political views can genuinely enjoy each other's company. The secret isn't agreeing on everything; it's respecting each other enough to listen, ask questions, and assume good faith.

This Thanksgiving, approach your gathering with an open heart and genuine curiosity. Set boundaries if needed, but don't avoid all meaningful conversations just because they might be uncomfortable. Some of the best memories come from real conversations where vulnerability and honesty create connection instead of conflict.

Happy Thanksgiving from two friends who prove that liberals and conservatives can break bread together without breaking each other.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Luby's:

https://www.lubys.com/

Kerrygold USA:

https://www.kerrygoldusa.com/

Good for the Soul:

People Choosing Kindness (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/peoplechoosingkindness/

Tangle:

https://youtu.be/_ys-UNz5U24?si=sNsUCJ3LVAreVQWN

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

We're about to talk about religion, which means a good portion of you just got a little uncomfortable. But here's something wild that might make this conversation easier: science shows that prayer and meditation do essentially the same thing to your brain. Whether you're a Christian praying in a church or an atheist meditating in your living room, your brain is having a remarkably similar experience. Today we're taking a look at why these practices work, how they're more alike than different, and why maybe we should all stop arguing about whose version is "right."

Whether you pray to God, meditate on your breath, or find peace in nature, you're tapping into something fundamental about human consciousness. You're creating space for stillness in a noisy world. You're cultivating compassion in a culture that often rewards cruelty. You're choosing presence over distraction.

We're not here to convert anyone to prayer or meditation. We're here to share what works for us and invite you to explore what might work for you. Maybe it's the practice you grew up with. Maybe it's something completely new. Maybe it's a combination of traditions that speaks to your specific experience.

The invitation is simple: get curious. Explore. Try things. Notice what creates peace, connection, and clarity in your life. And then do more of that, regardless of what it's called or where it comes from.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Dr. Andrew Newberg Content:

The Mel Robbins Podcast with Dr. Andrew Newberg: https://youtu.be/zVXOyp0q9pA?si=EH_9NfllFj48v1jJ

Dr. Andrew Newberg TED Talk:

https://youtu.be/7SJCDLHyeqk?si=Jq3ncdR6w4Pv0WdD Additional Video: https://youtu.be/JdVmBH7HYoY?si=Adw5nPkLyL7ifJHM

Prayer and Meditation Resources:

Jesus Calling:

https://www.jesuscalling.com/

Good for the Soul:

Ohhthatsrich (Instagram):

https://www.instagram.com/ohhthatsrich/?hl=en

60 Minutes with Spencer Cox:

https://youtu.be/sk8Ct961EMc?si=KVWxThdZXA9rVFQe

Books and Educational Resources:

TA for Tots: https://archive.org/details/tafortotsandothe0000free

Science and Nature:

James Webb Telescope - Space Telescope Science Institute: https://youtu.be/xID7xvIYmEk?si=1U06VfpZ-gR3nDUw

Miscellaneous:

The Protest Rats (NYC Reddit):...