So much of our world today can be summed up in the cold logic of “if I don’t, they will.” This is the foundation of game theory, which holds that cooperation and virtue are irrational; that all that matters is the race to make the most money, gain the most power, and play the winning hand.

This way of thinking can feel inescapable, like a fundamental law of human nature. But our guest today, professor Sonja Amadae, argues that it doesn’t have to be this way. That the logic of game theory is a human invention, a way of thinking that we’ve learned — and that we can unlearn.

In this episode, Tristan and Aza explore the game theory dilemma — the idea that if I adopt game theory logic and you don’t, you lose — with Dr. Sonja Amadae, a professor of Political Science at the University of Helsinki. She's also the director at the Center for the Study of Existential Risk at the University of Cambridge and the author of “Prisoners of Reason: Game Theory and the Neoliberal Economy.”

The history of game theory as an inhumane technology stretches back to its WWII origins. But humans also cooperate, and we can break out of the rationality trap by daring to trust each other again. It’s critical that we do, because AI is the ultimate agent of game theory and once it’s fully entangled we might be permanently stuck in the game theory world.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

“Prisoners of Reason: Game Theory and the Neoliberal Economy” by Sonja Amadae (2015)

The Cambridge Centre for the Study of Existential Risk

“Theory of Games and Economic Behavior” by John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern (1944)

Further reading on the importance of trust in Finland

Further reading on Abraham Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

RAND’s 2024 Report on Strategic Competition in the Age of AI

Further reading on Marshall Rosenberg and nonviolent communication

The study on self/other overlap and AI alignment cited by Aza

Further reading on The Day After (1983)

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

America and China Are Racing to Different AI Futures

The Crisis That United Humanity—and Why It Matters for AI

Laughing at Power: A Troublemaker’s Guide to Changing Tech

The Race to Cooperation with David Sloan Wilson

Clarifications:

• The proposal for a federal preemption on AI was enacted by President Trump on December 11, 2025, shortly after this recording.
• Aza said that "The Day After" was the most watched TV event in history when it aired. It was actually the most watched TV film, the most watched TV event was the finale of MASH

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Is the US really in an AI race with China—or are we racing toward completely different finish lines?

In this episode, Tristan Harris sits down with China experts Selina Xu and Matt Sheehan to separate fact from fiction about China's AI development. They explore fundamental questions about how the Chinese government and public approach AI, the most persistent misconceptions in the West, and whether cooperation between rivals is actually possible. From the streets of Shanghai to high-level policy discussions, Xu and Sheehan paint a nuanced portrait of AI in China that defies both hawkish fears and naive optimism.

If we're going to avoid a catastrophic AI arms race, we first need to understand what race we're actually in—and whether we're even running toward the same finish line.

Note: On December 8, after this recording took place, the Trump administration announced that the Commerce Department would allow American semiconductor companies, including Nvidia, to sell their most powerful chips to China in exchange for a 25 percent cut of the revenue.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

“China's Big AI Diffusion Plan is Here. Will it Work?” by Matt Sheehan

Selina’s blog

Further reading on China’s AI+ Plan

Further reading on the Gaither Report and the missile gap

Further Reading on involution in China

The consensus from the international dialogues on AI safety in Shanghai

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

The Narrow Path: Sam Hammond on AI, Institutions, and the Fragile Future

AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.

The AI ‘Race’: China vs. the US with Jeffrey Ding and Karen Hao

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No matter where you sit within the economy, whether you're a CEO or an entry level worker, everyone's feeling uneasy about AI and the future of work. Uncertainty about career paths, job security, and life planning makes thinking about the future anxiety inducing. In this episode, Daniel Barcay sits down with two experts on AI and work to examine what's actually happening in today's labor market and what's likely coming in the near-term. We explore the crucial question: Can we create conditions for AI to enrich work and careers, or are we headed toward widespread economic instability?

Ethan Mollick is a professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies innovation, entrepreneurship, and the future of work. He's the author of Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI.

Molly Kinder is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, where she researches the intersection of AI, work, and economic opportunity. She recently led research with the Yale Budget Lab examining AI's real-time impact on the labor market.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI by Ethan Mollick

Further reading on Molly’s study with the Yale Budget Lab

The “Canaries in the Coal Mine” Study from Stanford’s Digital Economy Lab

Ethan’s substack One Useful Thing

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
Is AI Productivity Worth Our Humanity? with Prof. Michael Sandel

We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI

AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.

Tech's Big Money Campaign is Getting Pushback with Margaret O'Mara and Brody Mullins

CORRECTIONS

1. Ethan said that in 2022, experts believed there was a 2.5% chance that ChatGPT would be able to win the Math Olympiad. However, that was only among forecasters with more general knowledge (the exact number was 2.3%). Among domain expert forecasters, the odds were an 8.6% chance.
2. Ethan claimed that over 50% of Americans say that they’re using AI at work. We weren’t able to independently verify this claim and most studies we found showed lower rates of reported use of AI with American workers. There are reports from other countries, notably Denmark, which show higher rates of AI use.
3. Ethan indirectly quoted the Walmart CEO Doug McMillon as having a goal to “keep all 3 million employees and to figure out new ways to expand what they use.” In fact, McMillon’s language on AI has been much softer, saying that “AI is expected to create a number of jobs at Walmart, which will offset those that it replaces.” Additionally, Walmart has 2.1 million employees, not 3.

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