In this discussion, Bly talks of four sources of shame, including shame inherited from parents, grandparents, and ancestors, and shame over our bodily and creative instincts. It opens with a Russian fairy story on the Frog Princess and the shame we feel over our interior "Frog Bride." Bly and host Michael Toms discuss the new work in America on shame, most of it done during the last ten years.

Bly describes the three necessary and sequential life phases symbolized by three colors - the "red, white and black," in the Grimm Brothers' fairy tale "Iron John." He casts a penetrating light on these male life stages, describing complications that arise, for example, when a boy skips the red and goes directly to the white. He also discusses how these stages, when fulfilled, affect men's relationships with women.

Leaving naivete behind may open up the wilder regions of maleness, where men can wrestle with their demons and, in time, reach maturity and balance, according to Bly, poet and men's workshop facilitator. This is a fascinating dialogue which explores the mystery of maleness and includes Bly's storytelling mastery and poetry.

Characterized by petty rivalries, self-indulgence and lack of responsibility, our actions fail to fulfill what Robert Bly describes as our true soul longing. With characteristic irreverence and storytelling from various cultures, Bly tells us what we should be doing about green-haired adolescents and idle elders, not to mention televisions and computers. His insightful focus illuminates the truths and possibilities of a culture caught in an adolescent phase of development.

When a woman or a father attacks a naive male, he immediately opens himself up and takes the attack right into himself. "Oh, yes, that is true. I am really bad!" It does not occur to him that the attack may be something quite different. Maybe the woman or father is angry at something else and is displacing or projecting the anger onto the man. The naive male takes in the attack, feels the wound, and then bends over, psychologically.