Plus, Jon’s take on why now is a good time to start a business — in spite of market uncertainty.

Today’s callers: Dan from Washington considers new offerings beyond his core loose leaf yerba mate product. Then, Mike from New Hampshire wants to expand his woodworking business beyond his basement, without taking on debt. And Maggie from Georgia wonders how to respond to rising customer acquisition costs for her soccer-themed dog brand.

Thank you to the founders of Heretic Yerba, MTS Woodworking, and Floofball for being a part of our show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to Betterment’s founding story as told by Jon on the show in 2018.

This episode was produced by Noor Gill with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Kwesi Lee.

You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In the late 2000s, two French mountain athletes set out to build a running shoe that captured the feeling of flying.

Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas “Nico” Mermoud had spent decades inside the innovation engine at Salomon—where product was obsession. In 2007, as Nico recovered from a brutal ultramarathon around Mont Blanc, the founders fixed on a problem that Big Footwear didn’t care about: downhill running was destroying bodies. Their solution: make the shoe bigger, softer, and shaped like a rocker.

At first, their prototypes looked like clown shoes. Runners who preferred minimalist footwear laughed at them. Retailers said no. But the founders kept doing the one thing that they knew could reverse things: they made people try them.

HOKA went from under $3M in sales in 2012 to more than $2B a year—and in this episode, you’ll hear how it happened: the risky design, the early cash crunch, and the strategic partnership that helped them win the U.S. market.

What you’ll learn:

• How to think of a shoe as a machine, not just a piece of apparel
• The go-to-market weapon that worked: relentless demo-ing
• Why outside money can’t always solve a cash flow bottleneck (and what does)
• How HOKA used performance proof to avoid being dismissed as a gimmick
• Why HOKA partnered with Deckers—and why it wasn’t just about capital
• How to keep a “rebel” mindset as competitors start copying you

Timestamps:

(Timecodes are approximate and may shift depending on platform.)

• [07:12] George Salomon’s leadership lesson: the CEO who sought advice from an intern
• [11:11] Nico’s first day at Salomon: testing ski prototypes on a glacier
• [18:42] The ultramarathon race where Nico’s legs crumbled (and why)
• [21:29] A breakthrough insight: performance changes with surface (leaves, lava, snow)
• [31:25] Designing a sneaker as if it were a car: engine, tires, seat
• [40:00] The “clown shoe” prototype—and the first successful run
• [47:22] Elite runners kickstart the brand
• [49:02] The hard part nobody glamorizes: factory minimums, bank demands, anemic cash flow
• [53:31] Deckers enters: the minority investment that unlocks the U.S. (without killing the brand)

Hey—want to be a guest on HIBT?

If you’re building a business, why not get advice from some of the greatest entrepreneurs on Earth?

Every Thursday on the HIBT Advice Line, a previous HIBT guest helps new entrepreneurs work through the challenges they’re facing right now. Advice that’s smart, actionable, and absolutely free.

Just call 1-800-433-1298, leave a message, and you may soon get guidance from someone who started where you did, and went on to build something massive.

So—give us a call. We can’t wait to hear what you’re working on.

***

This episode was produced and researched by Rommel Wood with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.

It was edited by Neva Grant.

Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Kwesi Lee.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Plus, Mark on his most challenging venture yet: revolutionizing the prescription drug market in America.

First we meet Lucy from Washington DC, considering an opportunity to bring her upside-down peanut butter brand into a big box retailer. Then Macy from Utah, wondering if her youth-safe skincare products are better marketed to kids or their parents. Then Dan from North Carolina, looking to reboot his pre-pandemic business selling hand-crafted wooden razors. And finally Kristen from Michigan, questioning if she should expand her children’s winter wear brand with gear for other seasons.

Thank you to the founders of One Trick Pony, Girlyish Skincare, Imperium Shaving, and Northern Classics for being a part of our show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to Mark Cuban’s original episode on the show from back in 2016.

This episode was produced by Casey Herman with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineers were Robert Rodriguez and Jimmy Keeley.

You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.