Apply to be interviewed on Early Access : HERE

See our other work at : www.aroundthecircle.org

In this Early Access episode, Katie introduces the next chapter of the series: additional interviews with each Enneagram number, beginning with a rich Type One conversation featuring Natasha. Natasha shares her journey into the Enneagram, her experience of body-centered intuition, and how Ones navigate anger, resentment, and the urge to fix entire systems rather than small parts. Together, Katie and Natasha explore the deep emotional life of Ones, the difference between thinking and feeling, and why growing in self-awareness is both liberating and humbling.

We sit down with Danielle Fuller, creator of Scientific Enneagram, to preview her brand-new podcast coming to our channel in January 2026.

Subscribe : on iTunes or on Spotify .

Danielle is an engineer and a systems thinker who sees a huge gap between the world of Enneagram teaching and the world of science and research. Her passion is to become a bridge-builder between those two spaces, helping us ask better questions, see the limits of what we know, and slowly build a real body of work around Enneagram and science.

In this conversation we talk about:

• Why doing good science with the Enneagram is so hard (self-reporting, motives vs. behavior, and the limits of current tools)
• How psychology has moved through introspection, behaviorism, psychoanalysis, and the cognitive revolution—and where the Enneagram might fit in that story
• The tension between qualitative narrative work (like panels and coaching) and quantitative data (stats, brain scans, validated scales)
• The ways cultural bias shows up in psychological research (WEIRD samples, Western assumptions, college-student data) and what that means for a tool that claims to describe 8 billion people
• Why motive may be one of the most important things science could study—and how the Enneagram offers a lens, not the final word

We also get into funding, grad students, file-drawer problems, conspiracy thinking, and why Danielle is doing this as a passion project even though there’s basically no money in it.

If you’re a scientist, grad student, therapist, or researcher who’s Enneagram-informed (or even Enneagram-skeptical) and want to talk, Danielle would love to hear from you: hello@scientificenneagram.com

I’m genuinely thrilled about this show. My hope is that The Scientific Enneagram becomes a hub for serious conversations about motive, method, and what we can actually know when we bring the Enneagram into the lab.

Thanks for supporting us on Patreon. You’re making experiments like this possible.

In this episode of Early Access, Katie sits down with Joleen Nguyen, a 32-year-old counterphobic Enneagram Six and new mom to explore the rich inner world of Sixes from the inside.

Joleen shares how she first met the Enneagram through a flimsy one-paragraph description of Sixes, why it didn’t stick at first, and how returning to the Enneagram years later (after a deep love affair with Myers-Briggs) completely changed the way she saw herself.

She and Katie unpack why the Enneagram goes deeper than Myers-Briggs—naming why we do what we do—and what it means that your number doesn’t change, even as you grow.

Together they tease apart the frequent mistype between Sixes, Threes, and Eights, looking at stance, energy, and especially what happens under stress: Six “six-ing out,” Three-ish sabotage, and how integrity, community, and fear show up differently in each type. Joleen opens up about the Six “committee,” the terror of being wrong, the longing for secure community, and how motherhood helped her finally trust her own judgment.

They close by reframing Sixes not as “the anxious ones,” but as people whose consideration of others is a superpower.

Kristin interviews Kelly Langley Cook: Enneagram Three, career educator, and the person who quietly shapes most future social studies teachers in Greeley, Colorado.

Kelly spent two decades teaching high school before moving into higher ed, where she now focuses on LGBTQ+ U.S. history and teacher training at UNC.

She also happens to share a life (and last name) with Jeff Cook, which means she’s lived inside Enneagram culture for a long time—while still claiming her lane as the “normal person in a world full of experts.”

Subscribe to Katie's feed : HERE

Connect with all our workshops and "rewired" Podcast : HERE

Sara from Utah joins Katie to open a window into life as an Enneagram Five.

Sara unpacks the difference between physical retreat (car, corner, time-out) and an emotional shutdown that feels like a cloud rolling over the mind. She explains why Fives can be read as “cold,” how she “thinks her feelings,” and the quiet cost of borrowing energy in crisis (the post-help crash and “overdraft fees”).

They dig into doing-repression, limited access to the Feeling center, the embarrassment of visible excitement, boundaries around who gets her bandwidth, and how naming facts can be a bridge back to emotions.

We are beginning a huge project and would love your help.

We will doing eight more interviews of this kind in 2026, for each of the types.

If you are interested in being interviewed, please let us know either in the comments or send us a direct message.

We need folks who are positive of their type, have done at least 3 years worth of work, and are familiar with our work.

Thanks! Jeff

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We are speaking with Kristin Messegee, Christy Engle and Nicole from Austin—who work every day with anxiety, embodiment, and the inner life of Sixes. Together we walk through how Sixes relate to all three centers (heart, head, and body), what it’s like to live with a “maniacal clown” mind, and why calm can feel more dangerous than stress.

We talk about emotional detachment and positivity masks, the way Sixes outsource certainty to other people, and the work of learning which thoughts not to believe. The panel digs into somatic practice, health anxiety, over-functioning for family, and how stress nudges Sixes into a very Three-ish, outcome-driven “I’ll just do it myself” mode—alongside the shame, self-doubt, and “trash baby legs” humor that shows up there. We also name what security really feels like for Sixes: grounded bodies, present-moment awareness, a softer spiritual lens, and the courage to trust their own wisdom.

In this conversation we explore:

• The difference between feeling emotions and thinking about emotions
• What it’s like to live in your head while trying to look warm, relaxed, and positive
• How Sixes learn to spot thoughts that aren’t trustworthy
• The role of the body: over-caffeinating, overdoing, and slowly rebuilding trust with the soma
• Stress moves to Three: visibility, competence, frenzy, and “I’m the only one who sees the problem”
• Security moves to Nine: calm, present-moment practice, spirituality, and right-sizing fears

This one is packed with lived experience, concrete practices, and some very Six-flavored honesty.

This is the audio from our November workshop.

SIGN UP FOR OUR DECEMBER 13th WORKSHOP : HERE

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What happens when our Enneagram type stops helping and starts hurting? In this live workshop, Katie and Jeff explore “Excess” – the low side of our core motive – and how each type ramps up its usual strategies until they begin to do damage to ourselves and the people we love.

We’re joined by folks from Texas to India to New Zealand as we define Excess, talk through our centers and stance, and then walk type by type through how this shows up in real life.

This is the first of two parts.

In this episode, you’ll hear Ones, Twos, Threes, and Fours share concrete stories of what it looks like when they overdo their motive, and how they’re learning to notice the red flags and move toward health.

In this session we cover:

• A working definition of “Excess”
• How dominant and repressed centers play into Excess for each type
• Ones in Excess: rigidity, over-responsibility, resentment, and doing what no one asked you to do
• Twos in Excess: over-managing relationships, self-righteous helping, martyrdom, and “do you still love me?” outreach
• Threes in Excess: overdoing action, self-deception, image maintenance, and losing touch with a true sense of self
• Fours in Excess: overindulging feelings, envy, dwelling vs depth, and getting stuck instead of creating
• How stance and time orientation (past/present/future) shape our version of Excess
• First steps out of Excess: courage for 4/5/9, wisdom for 1/2/6, moderation for 3/7/8

If you’ve ever thought, “I know my type… but I keep doing the same thing and it’s not working,” this one is for you. This video is Part One (Types 1–4); we’ll hit 5–9 in the next session.

Katie sits down with Cincinnati musician and producer Timothy Edward Carpenter to explore the inner landscape of a Four: the pull toward the unattainable, the ache of “not enough,” and why connection only feels real in the deep end.

Timothy speaks openly about chasing music dreams, choosing others’ projects over his own, rebuilding marriage, and learning to trust therapy without letting a test define him.

Together they unpack shame for 2-3-4s, an Idealist's frustration with reality, and the difference between being understood and being accepted.

If you are interested inning interviewed on Early Access and want to be a guest, fill out the intake form on Katie’s site : HERE.

Find Timothy’s work: HERE