Today on Ascend, we discuss Plato, education, the role of the teacher, eros, beauty, and much more drawing from the dialogues First Alcibiades and the Meno. Returning to the podcast, we have Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Dr. Brett Larson, and Thomas Lackey.

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.

Visit our LIBRARY OF WRITTEN GUIDES to help you read the great books.

What does it mean to teach like Plato? In this rich, wide-ranging conversation the panel explores lessons on education drawn from Plato’s First Alcibiades and Meno. The central idea: the true teacher is not an information-dispenser or job-trainer, but a lover of the soul who serves as a living mirror in which the student comes to “know himself” and is drawn toward virtue, happiness, and ultimate beauty.

Summary:

The conversation revolved around a single, radiant idea: for Plato, the true teacher is not a dispenser of information or a trainer for the marketplace, but a lover of the soul. In First Alcibiades, Socrates positions himself as the living mirror in which the young, ambitious Alcibiades can finally see himself clearly and be drawn toward genuine happiness through virtue.

Education is therefore deeply personal, erotic (in the classical sense of an ardent desire for not only pleasure but also nobility and wisdom), and irreducibly communal; self-knowledge is never solitary navel-gazing but requires another soul whose loving gaze reflects one’s own. The panel repeatedly contrasted this rich, teleological vision—where education aims at universal happiness, orders the whole person toward truth, goodness, and beauty, and ultimately points to God as the final mirror—with the thin, “unerotic” reality of modern schooling, which often reduces teachers to talking search engines and students to economic cogs in a materialist machine.

A second major thread was the haunting, unresolved tension of the Meno: teaching demands both an able and willing teacher and an able and willing student. Virtue can be cultivated, but it cannot be forcibly downloaded; the student must respond, cooperate, and allow his desires to be re-ordered toward what is truly lovable.

This led to broader reflections on beauty, rhetoric, place, and hierarchy: truth is beautiful and therefore insists on being loved; philosophy without rhetoric is impotent, rhetoric without philosophy becomes tyrannical; ugly buildings and disembodied logic deform the soul; natural hierarchy is not abolished by grace but perfected and placed in service of the common good. Throughout, the panel returned to the conviction that genuine education is slow, embodied, relational, and oriented toward the transcendent—an ascent that begins with a teacher who truly sees and loves the soul before him.

Key words: Plato, First Alcibiades, Meno, classical education, teacher as lover of the soul, know thyself, virtue, happiness, eudaimonia, beauty, transcendentals, eros, mirror of the soul, rhetoric, philosophy, modern education critique, materialism, teleology, Socratic method, student-teacher relationship, hierarchy, imago Dei, Christian Platonism, and Great Books.

In this episode of Ascend, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Brian Kemple discuss the violent, grotesque southern tale "The Lame Shall Enter First" by Flannery O'Connor.

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!

Check out our LIBRARY of written guides to the great books.

Check out the Lyceum Institute.

They explore O'Connor's life, her unique Southern Gothic style, and the themes of faith, suffering, and the grotesque in her writing.

The conversation also touches on the mission of the Lyceum Institute, the significance of characters and their arcs, and the pedagogical purpose of violence in literature.

Through their analysis, they highlight the complexities of human relationships and the contrasting desires of the characters, ultimately revealing the deeper truths embedded in O'Connor's work.

Through a detailed analysis of specific scenes and character dynamics, the discussion highlights the grotesque elements in O'Connor's storytelling and the moral implications of her narratives, ultimately reflecting on the nature of redemption and the human experience.

"She doesn't intend to tidy up reality." - Dr. Kemple

In the incredible final act of Plato’s Gorgias (481–527), Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Greg McBrayer (Ashland University, New Thinkery podcast) tackle the longest and most brutal confrontation: Socrates versus Callicles, the most shameless, most ambitious, and—as Greg insists—nastiest character in all of Plato.

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our read schedule!

Check out our COLLECTION OF GUIDES to the great books.

Go to THE ASCENT to receive two spiritual lessons a week.

Callicles storms in threatening to “whoop Socrates in the mouth” and delivers the most radical claim yet: conventional justice is a sham invented by the weak; by nature the superior should rule, take more, and live without restraint—coining the first recorded “law of nature” in Western literature to mean might makes right (482e–484c).

Socrates flips the argument, forces Callicles to admit intelligence without self-control is mere cleverness, and reduces his unlimited-pleasure principle to absurdity with the leaky-jar and escalating vulgar examples (constant scratching, the catamite, 494–495), provoking Callicles’ outraged “Aren’t you ashamed?”—proof he still clings to the noble (kalon) despite his bravado.

At 503a Socrates finally reveals the two kinds of rhetoric: the shameful, flattering kind that seeks only pleasure, and the true, noble rhetoric that “makes the souls of citizens as good as possible” and strives to say “what is best” whether pleasant or painful—the kind Socrates claims to be the only Athenian practicing (521d).

When Callicles becomes completely recalcitrant, Socrates turns to the audience with the unforgettable myth of naked souls judged by dead judges (523a–527e): every injustice leaves visible scars no rhetoric or power can hide; the cosmos itself is ordered toward justice and will not allow injustice to triumph forever.

Athens is about to execute its only true statesman, but the myth promises that in the final reckoning Socrates’ just soul will shine while his accusers’ scarred souls stand exposed. The dialogue ends not with Callicles’ conversion but with Socrates’ quiet vindication: living justly is ultimately worth it, even in a city that kills its best citizen.

Next week: a short break from Plato for Flannery O’Connor’s “The Lame Shall Enter First.”