In this episode of Ascend, The Great Books Podcast, host Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by Fr. Justin Brophy, a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, to dive into the first half of Plato’s Apology.

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The discussion explores Socrates’ defense speech at his trial in 399 BC, set against the backdrop of post-Peloponnesian War Athens. The conversation delves into key themes, including the role of Aristophanes’ The Clouds in shaping Socrates’ negative reputation, the tension between philosophy and politics, and the influence of Alcibiades on the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth.

Fr. Brophy and Deacon Garlick examine Socrates’ claim of divine wisdom from the Oracle of Delphi, his distinction between human and divine wisdom, and his refusal to charge fees, distinguishing him from sophists. They also discuss the broader implications of Socrates as a threat to the democratic polis, the conflict between philosophy and poetry, and the natural antagonism between the demos and the great-souled man. The episode highlights Socrates’ pedagogical approach and the relevance of his trial to modern questions of truth, virtue, and societal stability.

Guest Introduction: Fr. Justin Brophy is a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, where he has taught for five years. Holding a PhD in political theory from the University of Notre Dame, his teaching interests include ancient and contemporary political theory, philosophical conceptions of the human psyche, and thinkers such as Plato, Augustine, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Freud, and those in the modern Catholic intellectual tradition like Romano Guardini, Joseph Pieper, and Walker Percy.

Fr. Brophy also serves as the director of the Center for Catholic and Dominican Studies at Providence College, fostering mission integration and intellectual exploration. His current research focuses on the political significance of Plato’s Symposium, a dialogue he considers his favorite for its exploration of Eros and its historical context tied to Athens’ decline.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Historical Context: The Apology is set in 399 BC, after Athens’ defeat in the Peloponnesian War (404 BC) and Alcibiades’ assassination (404 BC). The charges of impiety and corrupting the youth may indirectly target Socrates for Alcibiades’ role in Athens’ downfall, constrained by a post-war amnesty (23B-C).
2. Aristophanes’ The Clouds: Socrates addresses old accusations (18a) that he “can make the worst argument the stronger” and “does not believe in the gods,” rooted in Aristophanes’ caricature of him as a sophist and atheist in The Clouds, which shaped public perception and fueled the trial’s charges (19C, 31B-C).
3. Philosophy vs. Politics: Socrates’ philosophical questioning challenges the polis’ laws and cultural norms, making him a political threat. Fr. Brophy notes, “Philosophy… forces you to reevaluate… the regime… the principles of law and… your culture. And that can be dangerous” (17B).
4. Alcibiades’ Influence: Alcibiades, a charismatic figure linked to Socrates, is seen as a key example of corrupting the youth due to his role in the disastrous Sicilian Expedition and defection to Sparta, amplifying fears of Socrates’ influence (23B-C).
5. Socratic Wisdom and the Oracle: Socrates recounts the Oracle of Delphi’s claim that he is the wisest man (20E), leading him to...

How would a Christian answer the Euthyphro dilemma? Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Dr. Donald Prudlo, the Warren Professor of Catholic Studies at the University of Tulsa, to discuss Aquinas and the Euthyphro dilemma.

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Also, check our Dr. Prudlo's new books:

Governing Perfection (2024) - "In the beginning, God administrated." For as Donald Prudlo observes, "There can be no achievement without administration." In this book he seeks to restore the idea that while administration is necessary even in the institutional Church, holiness is not only possible for those charged with governance, but is a fulfillment and type of Christus Rector omnium, or "Christ, Ruler of all.

Merchant Saint: The Church, the Market, and the First Lay Canonization (2025) - Paul Voss and Donald Prudlo trace Western attitudes to money, merchants, and the market through 3,000 years of history. They focus their attention on one person in particular, Omobono of Cremona (1117–1197), as an axial figure in the wholesale reappraisal of the value of business, entrepreneurship, and white-collar work in Christian Europe.

In this conversation, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo delve into the Euthyphro dilemma, exploring its implications in both a polytheistic and monotheistic context. They discuss the importance of humor in philosophy, the historical context of Plato's works, and the relevance of the Euthyphro dilemma in modern culture. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a realist metaphysic and the dangers of a voluntaristic worldview, ultimately highlighting the significance of engaging with great books and philosophical texts to reclaim understanding and truth.

Keywords: Euthyphro Dilemma, Plato, Socratic Method, Philosophy, Monotheism, Aquinas, Realism, Volunteerism, Great Books

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In this episode of the Ascend the Great Books podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and guests delve into the complexities of Plato's Euthyphro, exploring themes of piety, morality, and the divine - including the famous "Euthyphro Dilemma."

The podcast welcomes back Dr. Joey Spencer, who serves as a tutor of theology, an archivist, and an expert in angels and demons.

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Check out our collection of written guides on the great books!

Check our Part I of the Plato's Euthyphro if you missed it!

From the guide:

What is the Euthyphro Dilemma?

The Euthyphro Dilemma, introduced at 9(d), is the dialogue’s most famous section, where Socrates asks: “Is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” It is a question of causality. The first part or “horn” of the dilemma asks whether the pious is something objective loved by the gods, i.e., “is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious?” The second horn of the dilemma asks whether the pious whatever the gods will, i.e., “or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” The two horns are mutually exclusive and present contrary philosophical views: objective versus subjective; or realism versus voluntarism. The Euthyphro dilemma is not reducible to issue of piety but represents a rhetoric template Socrates will have recourse to time and time again to determine whether the definition of a thing is something objective that is discovered or something subjective that is made. For example, the Euthyphro dilemma is often rewritten concerning the good: “Is the good being loved by the gods because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by the gods?” It is often written in a monotheistic manner as well: “Is the good being loved by God because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by God?”. The Euthyphro dilemma used here ferrets out the nature of piety and the divine, but it represents a greater dilemma that is foundational to human thought: realism versus voluntarism. To wit, is truth discovered or is it made?

What observations may be made about the first horn of the dilemma?

The first horn posits that piety is an objective reality, an independent Idea or Form, and is loved by the gods because of its intrinsic nature. As Deacon explains, piety is good and just in se, and thus the gods love it. The first horn presents a metaphysical reality in which concepts, like piety, have a true, objective universal definition. It represents Plato’s Ideas. Moreover, as Deacon notes, the first horn makes a comment about the divine as well—as the gods do not create piety but rather adhere to it. Like in Antigone, the gods are adhering to law or standard of goodness. Piety’s essence is not contingent on divine approval but is a standard to which the gods conform, as Thomas suggests, pointing to “a universal that stands outside them.” This is significant because it challenges the traditional Homeric view where the divine wills define morality, instead positing that the gods recognize piety’s goodness, as seen in Euthyphro’s earlier intuition that Zeus is “the most just” god, implying a standard of justice above the gods, as Dr. Grabowski notes.

Dr. Spencer comments that the Homeric tradition shows that the gods do not agree or otherwise adhere...