Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Sarah Berry of the University of Dallas discuss Acedia, Avarice, and part of Gluttony in Cantos 18-22 of the Purgatorio.

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Dr. Sarah Berry joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to explore Cantos 18–22, covering the terrace of sloth (acedia) and the transition into avarice and prodigality. In Canto 18, Virgil delivers a pivotal discourse on love as the root of all human action, explaining that love can be misdirected (pride, envy, wrath), deficient (sloth), or excessive (avarice, gluttony, lust). Berry emphasizes the terrace’s brevity and lack of a formal prayer: “their prayers are their action... the penitents too... are doing the thing as a way of offering up some kind of prayer to God” (Dr. Sarah Berry), with running souls and examples of zeal (Mary’s haste to Elizabeth, Caesar’s swift march) countering sloth’s cooling of love.

The dream of the siren in Canto 19 warns against deceptive earthly goods, while the face-down penance on the avarice terrace forces fixation on the earth once loved excessively: “these are those who had a disordered love of money... goods that can’t be shared” (Dr. Sarah Berry).

Cantos 20–22 deepen the exploration of avarice’s societal and personal consequences. Hugh Capet’s lament in Canto 20 indicts the French dynasty’s greed and sacrilege, including the capture of Boniface VIII. Berry highlights the terrace’s broadened scope: “Dante is really broadening... our awareness of this constellation of problems” beyond mere hoarding or spending. In Canto 21, Statius is released with an earthquake and song, explaining his long purgation on sloth and avarice before moving freely upward. Canto 22 poignantly contrasts Statius (saved through Virgil’s influence and grace) with Virgil himself, who lacks faith despite his virtues. Berry notes the tragedy: “Dante is inviting us... hoping that there is some special providence for Virgil at the end of his journey through purgatory” (Dr. Sarah Berry). The cantos reveal Purgatorio’s hopeful, dynamic nature: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from deficient to excessive attachments, preparing the soul for divine union.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio

02:29 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Themes and Structure

04:30 The Importance of Purgatorio in Spiritual Growth

08:32 Understanding Love and Culpability in Purgatorio

12:00 Diving into Canto 18: The Lesson on Love

13:26 Virgil's Discourse on Love and Free Will

17:40 The Nature of Love: Ascent and Culpability

20:31 The Role of Reason in Human Actions

26:01 The Formation of Intellect and Will

33:12 Contrapasso: The Penance of Slothfulness

40:19 Examples of Zeal: Mary and Caesar

42:17 Understanding Zeal and Sloth

47:04 The Subtlety of Sin and Human Effort

52:31 Dreams and Allegory in Purgatory

01:00:27 The Nature of Prayer and Action

01:01:58 Exploring Avarice and Its Consequences

01:20:15 Exploring Dante's Inferno: Sin and Intellect

01:23:03 Wrath and Sloth: Roots of Sin in Purgatorio

01:25:23 Positive Examples: Virtue Against Avarice

01:29:30 Dante's Critique of French Dynasties

01:35:56 The Role of Statius: A New Perspective

01:50:30 Virgil's Tragic Journey: Hope for Salvation?

Keywords

Dante's Purgatorio, Sloth, Love, Virtue, Spiritual Growth, Theology, Literature, Dante, Purgatory, Christian Virtues Dante, Purgatorio, allegory, sin, virtue, divine justice, theology, Mount Purgatory, purgation, salvation

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson of Pepperdine University discuss cantos 13-17 of Dante's Purgatorio--the purging of envy and wrath.

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Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to discuss Cantos 13–17, covering the terraces of envy (Canto 13) and wrath (Cantos 14–17), with a strong focus on the central discourses in the middle of the Comedy.

In Canto 13, the envious have their eyelids sewn shut with iron wire, a contrapasso that forces them to rely on others and recognize interdependence. Wilson explains: “envy is to look cross-eyed on another's blessings... to look askance,” and the disembodied voices proclaim examples of generosity (Cana, “I am Orestes,” “Love them from whom you’ve suffered evil”), teaching a mindset of abundance over scarcity (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). Sapia humbly confesses her envy and malice, contrasting with the divisive souls in Inferno.

Cantos 14–15 transition to wrath, with visions of meekness (Mary and Joseph seeking Jesus, a tyrant sparing a youth, Stephen forgiving his stoners) and Virgil’s discourse on goods: exhaustible earthly goods versus inexhaustible spiritual ones. Wilson notes: “envy stems from a mindset of scarcity versus Mary’s mindset of abundance... able to supply where it looks like there’s not enough in the world” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson).

The pivotal Canto 16 (the exact midpoint of the Comedy) features Marco Lombardo’s sermon on free will: “If the present world has gone astray, the cause is in you, look at yourselves” (Marco via transcript). Wilson calls it “the clearest sermon that Dante has about what’s wrong with the world,” emphasizing that sin arises from misused free will, not fate or stars, and critiques the separation of temporal and spiritual powers.

Canto 17 concludes the wrath terrace with Virgil’s discourse on love as the root of all action (“Neither Creator nor creature was ever without love... natural or of the mind” – Virgil via transcript), which can be misdirected, deficient, or excessive. Wilson highlights the shift from reason to grace: “reason can’t do it alone... you need this other kind of intervention” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). The cantos underscore Purgatorio’s hopeful pedagogy: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from misdirected to deficient love in preparation for the excessive attachments above. Wilson stresses the urgency: “the Purgatorio shows humanity in motion, dynamic humanity... it has the immediacy... that is an urgency to it” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson).

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast

04:06 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio

07:20 The Great Books Program at Pepperdine University

10:18 The Significance of Purgatorio

13:27 Understanding Envy in Purgatorio

16:17 Contrary Virtues: Generosity and Kindness

19:22 The Role of Sight and Blindness in Envy

22:15 Dante's Moral Lessons on Envy

25:14 Comparative Analysis with Inferno

30:33 Dante's Poetic Structure and Contrapasso

32:15 Comparative Analysis of Characters in Inferno and Purgatorio

33:54 The Role of Good and Bad Examples in Moral Education

34:14 The Shift from Temporal to Eternal Mindsets

34:20 Understanding Canto 14: The Importance of Examples

39:35 Canto 15: The Inquiry into Goods and Wrath

49:58 Canto 16: The Purging of Wrath and Examples of Virtue

51:35 Ecstatic Visions and Penitent Souls

52:19 The Tyrant's Moment of Virtue

53:28 Humanity in Purgatorio

54:38 The Role of Mary in Purgatory

56:02 Saint Stephen's Example of Forgiveness

57:12 Virgil's Limitations as a Guide

59:12 The Nature of Freedom in Purgatory

01:03:07 The Importance of Canto 16

01:04:37 Understanding Freedom in Dante's Context

01:07:32 The Role of Law and Governance

01:14:39 Self-Reflection and the State of the World

01:23:48 Exploring Wrath in Purgatory

01:30:57 Understanding the Structure of Purgatory

Keywords: Dante's Purgatorio, Cantos 13-17, spiritual growth, virtues and vices, education, great books, Dante analysis Dante's Divine Comedy, Purgatory, Virtues and Vices, Free Will, Theology, Morality, Literature, Catholic Teaching, Spiritual Journey

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Garlick and Mr. Luke Heintschel, headmaster of Coeur du Christ Academy, discuss the rest of ante-purgatory and then the first terrace--the purging of pride.

Check out our GUIDE: 51 QUESTIONS ON THE PURGATORIO.

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The conversation explores the transition from Ante-Purgatory into the proper mountain of Purgatory and the first terrace dedicated to purging the sin of pride. Garlick describes this section as one of his favorites in the entire Purgatorio, praising Dante’s ability to provide a rich “liturgy” and spiritual library of resources for reshaping the soul into the beautiful image of Christ. The episode emphasizes Purgatorio as a positive map for sanctification and theosis, contrasting sharply with the Inferno’s exposure of sin’s ugliness.Guest Introduction and Classical Education Insights

Luke Heintschel shares his personal journey from evangelization and biblical theology into classical education, explaining how he came to see the liberal arts tradition—long cultivated by the Church—as the most effective means of making Catholicism relevant to contemporary young people. He describes his school’s mission of forming saints, scholars, and servants through the historic Catholic educational model. Deacon and Heintschel discuss the harmony of faith and reason, noting how reading great books alongside Scripture and theology reveals that the God who grants intellect is the same God who died on the cross. They highlight the value of using Dante’s Purgatorio in moral theology classes, where it serves not as a list of rules but as a vivid portrayal of transforming the heart’s disordered loves toward their divine end.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio

09:02 Understanding Purgatorio: A Map for Spiritual Growth

15:17 Dante's Intercessory Prayer and Its Significance

24:13 The Role of Beatrice and the Nature of Beauty

34:53 Dante's Political Critique and the State of Italy

43:05 The Call to Higher Patriotism

53:44 Understanding Virtue: Natural vs. Theological

59:35 The Valley of the Kings: Political Failures and Redemption

01:15:02 Dante's Heroism and Divine Grace

01:19:41 The Three Steps to Purification

01:28:10 The Role of Humility in Purgatory

01:51:27 The Purpose of Purification

01:59:24 Contrappasso: The Nature of Punishment in Purgatory

02:04:44 Examples of Pride: Lessons from the Past

02:16:26 The Beatitudes and the Path to Humility

02:23:47 Eagerness to Ascend: The Transformation of the Soul

Moral Theology and the Purpose of Purgatorio

The hosts stress that moral theology is not merely about avoiding sin but about becoming beautiful like Christ through active configuration to His image. Purgatorio offers a lifelong guide for this ascent, presenting prayers, hymns, scriptural examples, and artistic visions tailored to remedy each vice. They critique modern reductions of ethics to a “negative list” of prohibitions, arguing that Dante invites readers to pursue positive virtue and interior change.

In Canto 6, the souls in Ante-Purgatory eagerly seek Dante’s prayers, illustrating the Catholic doctrine of intercession for the dead as a participation in Christ’s merits. Virgil explains that purgation is possible through the resurrection, and the episode includes a brief catechesis on the communion of saints across the Church Militant, Penitent, and Triumphant. Beatrice is presented as an icon of divine beauty and grace, with the...