In this episode of Ascend, The Great Books Podcast, host Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by Fr. Justin Brophy, a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, to dive into the first half of Plato’s Apology.

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The discussion explores Socrates’ defense speech at his trial in 399 BC, set against the backdrop of post-Peloponnesian War Athens. The conversation delves into key themes, including the role of Aristophanes’ The Clouds in shaping Socrates’ negative reputation, the tension between philosophy and politics, and the influence of Alcibiades on the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth.

Fr. Brophy and Deacon Garlick examine Socrates’ claim of divine wisdom from the Oracle of Delphi, his distinction between human and divine wisdom, and his refusal to charge fees, distinguishing him from sophists. They also discuss the broader implications of Socrates as a threat to the democratic polis, the conflict between philosophy and poetry, and the natural antagonism between the demos and the great-souled man. The episode highlights Socrates’ pedagogical approach and the relevance of his trial to modern questions of truth, virtue, and societal stability.

Guest Introduction: Fr. Justin Brophy is a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, where he has taught for five years. Holding a PhD in political theory from the University of Notre Dame, his teaching interests include ancient and contemporary political theory, philosophical conceptions of the human psyche, and thinkers such as Plato, Augustine, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Freud, and those in the modern Catholic intellectual tradition like Romano Guardini, Joseph Pieper, and Walker Percy.

Fr. Brophy also serves as the director of the Center for Catholic and Dominican Studies at Providence College, fostering mission integration and intellectual exploration. His current research focuses on the political significance of Plato’s Symposium, a dialogue he considers his favorite for its exploration of Eros and its historical context tied to Athens’ decline.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Historical Context: The Apology is set in 399 BC, after Athens’ defeat in the Peloponnesian War (404 BC) and Alcibiades’ assassination (404 BC). The charges of impiety and corrupting the youth may indirectly target Socrates for Alcibiades’ role in Athens’ downfall, constrained by a post-war amnesty (23B-C).
2. Aristophanes’ The Clouds: Socrates addresses old accusations (18a) that he “can make the worst argument the stronger” and “does not believe in the gods,” rooted in Aristophanes’ caricature of him as a sophist and atheist in The Clouds, which shaped public perception and fueled the trial’s charges (19C, 31B-C).
3. Philosophy vs. Politics: Socrates’ philosophical questioning challenges the polis’ laws and cultural norms, making him a political threat. Fr. Brophy notes, “Philosophy… forces you to reevaluate… the regime… the principles of law and… your culture. And that can be dangerous” (17B).
4. Alcibiades’ Influence: Alcibiades, a charismatic figure linked to Socrates, is seen as a key example of corrupting the youth due to his role in the disastrous Sicilian Expedition and defection to Sparta, amplifying fears of Socrates’ influence (23B-C).
5. Socratic Wisdom and the Oracle: Socrates recounts the Oracle of Delphi’s claim that he is the wisest man (20E), leading him to...

How would a Christian answer the Euthyphro dilemma? Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Dr. Donald Prudlo, the Warren Professor of Catholic Studies at the University of Tulsa, to discuss Aquinas and the Euthyphro dilemma.

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Also, check our Dr. Prudlo's new books:

Governing Perfection (2024) - "In the beginning, God administrated." For as Donald Prudlo observes, "There can be no achievement without administration." In this book he seeks to restore the idea that while administration is necessary even in the institutional Church, holiness is not only possible for those charged with governance, but is a fulfillment and type of Christus Rector omnium, or "Christ, Ruler of all.

Merchant Saint: The Church, the Market, and the First Lay Canonization (2025) - Paul Voss and Donald Prudlo trace Western attitudes to money, merchants, and the market through 3,000 years of history. They focus their attention on one person in particular, Omobono of Cremona (1117–1197), as an axial figure in the wholesale reappraisal of the value of business, entrepreneurship, and white-collar work in Christian Europe.

In this conversation, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo delve into the Euthyphro dilemma, exploring its implications in both a polytheistic and monotheistic context. They discuss the importance of humor in philosophy, the historical context of Plato's works, and the relevance of the Euthyphro dilemma in modern culture. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a realist metaphysic and the dangers of a voluntaristic worldview, ultimately highlighting the significance of engaging with great books and philosophical texts to reclaim understanding and truth.

Keywords: Euthyphro Dilemma, Plato, Socratic Method, Philosophy, Monotheism, Aquinas, Realism, Volunteerism, Great Books

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Check out THE ASCENT for articles on Christian spirituality.

In this episode of the Ascend the Great Books podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and guests delve into the complexities of Plato's Euthyphro, exploring themes of piety, morality, and the divine - including the famous "Euthyphro Dilemma."

The podcast welcomes back Dr. Joey Spencer, who serves as a tutor of theology, an archivist, and an expert in angels and demons.

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Check out our collection of written guides on the great books!

Check our Part I of the Plato's Euthyphro if you missed it!

From the guide:

What is the Euthyphro Dilemma?

The Euthyphro Dilemma, introduced at 9(d), is the dialogue’s most famous section, where Socrates asks: “Is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” It is a question of causality. The first part or “horn” of the dilemma asks whether the pious is something objective loved by the gods, i.e., “is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious?” The second horn of the dilemma asks whether the pious whatever the gods will, i.e., “or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” The two horns are mutually exclusive and present contrary philosophical views: objective versus subjective; or realism versus voluntarism. The Euthyphro dilemma is not reducible to issue of piety but represents a rhetoric template Socrates will have recourse to time and time again to determine whether the definition of a thing is something objective that is discovered or something subjective that is made. For example, the Euthyphro dilemma is often rewritten concerning the good: “Is the good being loved by the gods because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by the gods?” It is often written in a monotheistic manner as well: “Is the good being loved by God because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by God?”. The Euthyphro dilemma used here ferrets out the nature of piety and the divine, but it represents a greater dilemma that is foundational to human thought: realism versus voluntarism. To wit, is truth discovered or is it made?

What observations may be made about the first horn of the dilemma?

The first horn posits that piety is an objective reality, an independent Idea or Form, and is loved by the gods because of its intrinsic nature. As Deacon explains, piety is good and just in se, and thus the gods love it. The first horn presents a metaphysical reality in which concepts, like piety, have a true, objective universal definition. It represents Plato’s Ideas. Moreover, as Deacon notes, the first horn makes a comment about the divine as well—as the gods do not create piety but rather adhere to it. Like in Antigone, the gods are adhering to law or standard of goodness. Piety’s essence is not contingent on divine approval but is a standard to which the gods conform, as Thomas suggests, pointing to “a universal that stands outside them.” This is significant because it challenges the traditional Homeric view where the divine wills define morality, instead positing that the gods recognize piety’s goodness, as seen in Euthyphro’s earlier intuition that Zeus is “the most just” god, implying a standard of justice above the gods, as Dr. Grabowski notes.

Dr. Spencer comments that the Homeric tradition shows that the gods do not agree or otherwise adhere...

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are joined by Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Thomas Lackey, and Dr. Joey Spencer to discuss the first part of Plato’s Euthyphro—a dialogue on piety.

Dr. Spencer is the diocesan Archivist for the Diocese of Tulsa, a tutor in Theology, and an expert in the theology of angels and demons.

We discuss the context of the dialogue and move into conversations on piety as a political problem, the role of imitating the divine in Greek religion, an introduction to Plato’s Ideas and its reception into Christianity, and even a brief aside on how angels understand Plato’s Ideas.

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Check out our COLLECTION OF WRITTEN GUIDES TO THE GREAT BOOKS.

Check out THE ASCENT - a sister publication focusing on Christian spirituality, theosis, and sanctification - how does the soul ascend to God.

From the guide:

Why should you read the Euthyphro?

The Euthyphro is fundamentally “a dialogue about piety,” as Dcn. Harrison Garlick describes it, serving as an exploration of what piety truly means through a conversation between Socrates and Euthyphro. Dr. Frank Grabowski emphasizes its value as “a wonderful introduction to Platonic philosophy, Platonic literature,” highlighting how it features Socrates as the central figure and showcases “the Socratic method” in a clear and engaging way. Moments of “Socratic irony” are also evident, adding depth to understanding Socrates' approach, while the dialogue introduces Plato's search for the Ideas.

The dialogue is short and more straightforward, which makes it more ideal for first time readers than say the Republic or the Symposium. Its accessibility lies in its simplicity and a layered narrative, allowing readers to engage at their own intellectual level—focusing initially on key dilemmas but discovering more upon rereading—as Dcn. Harrison Garlick notes that “like most of Plato's narratives, the dialogues... bring layers... you can kind of grow with the text." For many, it's the first Platonic work encountered, often bundled with the Apology, Crito, and Phaedo as depictions of Socrates' last days.

What is the historical context for the Euthyphro?

The dramatic date of the Euthyphro is right before Socrates’ trial and execution in 399 BC. The composition date is estimated at 380 BC, but all composition dates should be accepted lightly. The dialogue takes place outside of the King Archon's court, a remnant of Athens' monarchical past, where a judge adjudicates on religious matters. Plato offers a conversation about piety, within its political context, right before his master is tried and condemned for his impiety. As moderns, we do not see piety as a political virtue, but for the Greeks, piety a virtue of cohesion—it bound together the family, the polis, and the gods into one cosmic whole. It is this three-tiered piety that animated the Iliad, Aeschylus’ Oresteia, and Sophocles’ Antigone. King Archon’s court is significant, because it underscores piety as a “political problem.” Impiety can destabilize the polis. Dr. Spencer suggests that Euthyphro sees Socrates as “being out of place,” which can be read as a euphemism for impiety or religious pollution, i.e., Socrates is the pollution of Athens. The question, however, is what is piety?

What is the first...

In this episode of the Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Daniel Shields discuss the significance of Plato's First Alcibiades, particularly in the context of its use at Wyoming Catholic College.

They explore the themes of self-knowledge, the relationship between philosophy and politics, and the importance of mentorship in education. The conversation delves into the character of Alcibiades as a reflection of the student experience, the role of spiritedness in the pursuit of wisdom, and the communal nature of the philosophical life.

Dr. Shields shares insights from his teaching experience, emphasizing the need for students to recognize their ignorance and the transformative power of philosophy as a way of life.

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From our guide:

First Alcibiades is both the beginning and a summation of Platonic philosophy. The dialogue “held pride of place in later antiquity as the ideal work with which to begin the study of Platonic philosophy.”[1] Its traditional subtitle was "on the nature of man,” and it was said First Alcibiades “contains the whole philosophy of Plato, as in a seed.”[2] The Islamic commentator, Al-Farabi, said that in First Alcibiades “all the Platonic questions are raised as if for the first time.”

At the heart of the dialogue is the maxim “know thyself,” which is in turn at the heart of the philosophic life. Plato uses a dialogue between a young Alcibiades, age twenty, and an older Socrates, age forty, to explore the Delphic maxim within the context of a teacher and student.[3] The relationship of the teacher as a lover of the soul of the student gave rise to the term "Platonic love," an intense, but non-sexual love in pursuit of excellence.[4]

The dramatic date of the dialogue is approximately 433 BC.[5] The composition date is a complicated question. First Alcibiades is considered by many to be a spurious dialogue or rather a dialogue written later by Platonists and not Plato. The dialogue sometimes has an earlier date around 390s BC and a later date in the 350s BC.[6] Some also hold the dialogue is a composite text with some being written by Plato and some being written by a later Platonist.

It should be noted, however, that antiquity held that the dialogue was written by Plato, and the idea that it was not originated recently in nineteenth century German scholarship.[7] For our purposes, we will side with antiquity and default to Plato as the authentic author.

Keywords: #Plato #Catholic #FirstAlcibiades #Philosophy #KnowThyself #GreatBooks

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[1] Plato, Complete Works, ed. John M. Cooper and D. S. Hutchinson (Indianapolis: Hackett...

KNOW THYSELF. Today, we have the second part of the excellent conversation on First Alcibiades with Dcn. Garlick, Alec Bianco, and Athenian Stranger. The conversation starts at 124(b)!

First Alcibiades is one of the BEST PLACES you could start with Plato.

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Check out our WRITTEN GUIDE to First Alcibiades.

From the guide:

14. What does Socrates teach Alcibiades about the body (129b)?

Plato teaches that the body is subordinate to the soul, viewing it as a possession rather than the essence of man. If one is to “know thyself” then one must know what the “self” is. Dcn. Garlick contrasts this with the Christian tradition’s composite view of man as body and soul, influenced by Aristotle and Aquinas, yet argues Plato’s stance merits seriously consideration. Dcn. Garlick argues that Plato seems to intuit the Christian teaching of man in his glorified state. For example, in the Christian tradition, there is never a time you are just a body—but there will be a time you are just a soul (after death and before the general resurrection). Moreover, even after you are united with your body for all eternity in heaven, the body, in Catholic thought, does not mediate the glory of God to the soul; rather, the soul receives God directly—not only does glorified man not use a body to know God but his body would be a hinderance, as he would then hold in his soul his thought of God and not God himself. In contrast, Aristotle seems right that our knowledge in this life comes through our senses, but this is not true in heaven—the latter is much more Platonic.

As such, though Plato does not see man as essentially soul and body, his philosophical insights into who man is and why he is a soul should be taken seriously by any Christian who wants to understand his or her own tradition better. Alec stresses that Socrates downplaying the body here also has a pedagogical purpose in humbling Alcibiades’ pride, which is very much rooted in his body and appearance. Athenian Stranger comments that First Alcibiades is the first discovering of “the self,” the soul; and, moreover, that an antecedent to this discovery is seen in Odysseus speaking to his own thumos in the Odyssey. Moreover, Athenian Stranger offers the trenchant observation that while a person may never be a body without a soul, that is how many people live—a life dedicated to the lower appetites, the pleasure of the body.

15. What is the mirror of the soul (132d)?

The eyes of lover are a mirror for the soul. The idea that we must look into the eyes of one who loves us to see ourselves is presented by Socrates as a profound method for self-knowledge. Dcn. Garlick explains: “if the body is going to know itself, what do you do? Well, I look into a mirror… clearly what we need then is a mirror to our soul… the first… mirror of the soul is the eyes of the lover, the one who loves you.” As Dcn. Garlick suggests, the dynamic goes beyond that of student-teacher and extends to other relations, like husband-wife and parent-child. Another profound aspect of this Platonic teacher is that it makes the pursuit of virtue, wisdom, and the good life a communal one. It is a stark contrast from Descartes’ solitary introspection. We are social creatures—even in our pursuit of wisdom and ultimately of the divine.

Athenian Stranger comments on the role of eros in philosophy and how it works on two planes: the eros between lovers, and...

PLATO IS PHILOSOPHY - and there is no better place to start with Plato than First Alcibiades. Today, we are discussing First Alcibiades with Alec Bianco of the Circe Institute and with the Athenian Stranger. Go check out their X accounts.

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.

Check out our PATREON for written guides on the great books!

We also have a NEW COMMUNITY CHAT on Plato to discuss with other people reading along.

First Alcibiades is both the beginning and a summation of Platonic philosophy. The dialogue “held pride of place in later antiquity as the ideal work with which to begin the study of Platonic philosophy.”[1] Its traditional subtitle was "on the nature of man,” and it was said First Alcibiades “contains the whole philosophy of Plato, as in a seed.”[2] The Islamic commentator, Al-Farabi, said that in First Alcibiades “all the Platonic questions are raised as if for the first time.”

At the heart of the dialogue is the maxim “know thyself,” which is in turn at the heart of the philosophic life. Plato uses a dialogue between a young Alcibiades, age twenty, and an older Socrates, age forty, to explore the Delphic maxim within the context of a teacher and student.[3] The relationship of the teacher as a lover of the soul of the student gave rise to the term "Platonic love," an intense, but non-sexual love in pursuit of excellence.[4]

The dramatic date of the dialogue is approximately 433 BC.[5] The composition date is a complicated question. First Alcibiades is considered by many to be a spurious dialogue or rather a dialogue written later by Platonists and not Plato. The dialogue sometimes has an earlier date around 390s BC and a later date in the 350s BC.[6] Some also hold the dialogue is a composite text with some being written by Plato and some being written by a later Platonist.

It should be noted, however, that antiquity held that the dialogue was written by Plato, and the idea that it was not originated recently in nineteenth century German scholarship.[7] For our purposes, we will side with antiquity and default to Plato as the authentic author.

CHECK OUT OUR GUIDE TO FIRST ALCIBIADES.

CHECK OUT OUR COMMUNITY CHAT ON PLATO.

Keywords: Plato, First Alcibiades, Socratic Method, Philosophy, Education, Rhetoric, Classical Education, Moral Formation, Athenian...

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are continuing our study of Plato by diving into the Life of Alcibiades by Plutarch with Alex from the Cost of Glory podcast.

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Alex is fantastic. Alex and Dcn. Garlick discuss a few preliminaries on why you should read about Alcibiades before studying Plato and why you should read Plutarch in general.

If you are not familiar with the life of Alcibiades, you are in for a treat. This man is a real-life Odysseus with all the twists and turns and unbelievable plots to merit that title. Alex will help us navigate Alcibiades’ life and pull out some important lessons, like the inherent dangers of democracy.

Also, THANK YOU for such a successful launch into Plato. We really appreciate it. Go check out our Patreon page for written guides on the great books AND a new community chat for all those who are reading Plato with us.

So join us as we prepare for our Platonic studies by examining the life of Alcibiades by Plutarch.

Keywords

Alcibiades, Plutarch, Socrates, Classics, Ancient Greece, Democracy, Philosophy, Cost of Glory, Antigone Journal, Human Nature, Alcibiades, Plutarch, Athenian politics, democracy, betrayal, piety, Spartan war, Socrates, ancient history, political strategy

#Plato #greatbooks #philosophy #christian #catholic #classics #ancientgreece #Socrates