Ep. 206 (Part 1 of 2) | In this extraordinary, compelling conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?” Recorded August 7, 2025.

“We should not sleep in the delusion that things are better than they are.”

• Introducing former Governor of California, Jerry Brown (00:43)
• Jerry’s Jesuit background and the transformative process (02:29)
• What shaped Jerry’s orientation to life? Growing up in a more innocent, unambiguous time in San Francisco (04:10)
• Today’s chaos and confusion is what led to the presidency of Donald Trump (10:20)
• The challenge in a democracy is getting a consensus—right now the “We” in “We the People” doesn’t have coherence (14:44)
• Today the democratic ideal is up for grabs; it’s zero-sum—all about winning, and the payoff for scapegoating is very high (15:52)
• We need an enormous amount of resources to address our problems, but using tax dollars requires a public belief and commitment that is not there (17:41)
• The doomsday clock is ticking, the dangers are growing: nuclear, bio, climate, AI, satellites & weaponry (21:42)
• Planetary realism and the need to work together: shared vulnerability needs to give rise to shared interest (26:35)
• What can we do as individuals? Where you can be helpful and human and responsive, do that (32:05)
• We are in the power of forces that a) we don’t control and b) we can’t do anything about (35:50)
• We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it: how do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard? (36:57)
• Sitting Zazen in the face of what’s happening (39:32)
• Jesuit slogan: Do what you’re doing (age quod agis) (42:20)

• Jerry Brown, Executive Chair of the the

Ep. 205 (Part 2 of 2) | In the fourteenth dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the nonconceptual nature of the dimension of pure awareness, guiding us into the realm that lies beyond conceptual dichotomies such as being/nonbeing, being/doing, duality/nonduality, good/bad, and meaningful/meaningless. Beyond knowing, this dimension exposes and challenges conceptual polarities, and when we arrive at this level of realization we are able to trust letting go of knowingness and wake up to pure awareness. People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, Hameed explains, and it does lead to a death: the death of mind, the death of the doer. But even here beyond knowing, Hameed continues, the nonconceptual always operates from compassion and love.

How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? Roger and John wonder. One way is when knowing is integrated into being, Hameed answers. Then everything just happens; the doing is funneled through the individual. And there is another way, through developing the “pearl beyond price,” the individual, Hameed adds, but this way is rare. As co-host Roger Walsh says, this is an especially nourishing, stimulating, and intriguing discussion, with Hameed doing a beautiful job of relating how our concepts form the basis of our existence and what it means to transcend them, let go of our mind, deconstruct our perception of ourselves as the “doer,” and wake up to pure awareness. Recorded August 14, 2025.

“Conceptual dichotomies are important for the functioning of the human being, they are our building blocks… We need to recognize their usefulness—and also be able to be without them.”

• The conceptual dichotomy between good and bad (00:28)
• The nonconceptual always operates from compassion (02:31)
• Most spiritual teachings focus on the dichotomy of being/nonbeing (04:40)
• Non-knowing is a deeper realization; if you become aware of it, you wake up to pure awareness (06:00)
• Goodness is inherent; Ram Dass understood loving awareness (07:43)
• The dichotomy of duality/nonduality (11:04)
• Conceptual dichotomies are important, they are our building blocks; we need to recognize their usefulness and also be able to be without them (13:07)
• The problem comes when we believe our concepts are fundamentally true and we become locked into our separate identities (18:27)
• The dichotomy of meaningful/meaningless (19:13)
• Purpose/purposelessness and the Buddhist idea that our purpose is enlightenment (23:05)
• Time/timelessness (25:32)
• Going beyond the concept of God: the universal heretic (26:33)
• The master of knowledge: you can use the knowledge but you are not bound by it or attached to it (28:01)
• The view of totality (32:22)
• Love & compassion are inherent to all spiritual teachings (33:43)
• Living in pure awareness: the 16th Karmapa (37:45)
• Hameed, Roger & John discuss Deep Transformation guests Frank Ostaseski of Zen Hospice and former CA governor Jerry Brown (40:16)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School

Ep. 204 (Part 1 of 2) | In the fourteenth dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the nonconceptual nature of the dimension of pure awareness, guiding us into the realm that lies beyond conceptual dichotomies such as being/nonbeing, being/doing, duality/nonduality, good/bad, and meaningful/meaningless. Beyond knowing, this dimension exposes and challenges conceptual polarities, and when we arrive at this level of realization we are able to trust letting go of knowingness and wake up to pure awareness. People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, Hameed explains, and it does lead to a death: the death of mind, the death of the doer. But even here beyond knowing, Hameed continues, the nonconceptual always operates from compassion and love.

How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? Roger and John wonder. One way is when knowing is integrated into being, Hameed answers. Then everything just happens; the doing is funneled through the individual. And there is another way, through developing the “pearl beyond price,” the individual, Hameed adds, but this way is rare. As co-host Roger Walsh says, this is an especially nourishing, stimulating, and intriguing discussion, with Hameed doing a beautiful job of relating how our concepts form the basis of our existence and what it means to transcend them, let go of our mind, deconstruct our perception of ourselves as the “doer,” and wake up to pure awareness. Recorded August 14, 2025.

“To be in the nonconceptual state, i.e. in sitting meditation, is half of it, but to actualize it is the other half.”

• Introducing the 14th dialogue in the
• A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, focusing on nonconceptual awareness & transcending conceptual dichotomies (00:51)
• Nondual reality, at the heart of The Inner Journey Home, is differentiated into five dimensions, each of which reveals something important about the deconstruction process that happens with spiritual practice (03:41)
• Nonconceptual means beyond the capacity of knowing (07:34)
• The experience of pure awareness transcends the dichotomy of existence/nonexistence (10:02)
• In Dzogchen, rigpa includes knowing—but pure awareness means no knowing, just perception (10:30)
• The dichotomy of being/doing is often a “sticking place” in our practice (16:10)
• How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? (19:44)
• People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, and it does lead to the death of mind, the death of the doer (23:03)
• With this level of realization, we can trust letting go of our knowingness (27:10)
• What are ways for actualization to occur? (29:20)
• In true, deep sleep there is cessation, all awareness gone (34:38)
• When God manifests through the individual, the two dimensions of being and knowing can happen at the same (37:16)
• Many traditions think the individual is an illusion—it’s not an illusion, it’s an appearance (39:12)
• Most human beings get arrested at the ego stage of development, the separate stage (43:14)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan...