Ep. 212 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of the compelling conversation with SAND founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo, the discussion turns to the making of their 2021 documentary film about the tragic injustices inflicted upon Palestinians in the West Bank. Where Olive Trees Weep is a very beautiful, heartbreaking, and eye opening film we highly recommend to our listeners. “How do we stop the violence?” asks co-host John Dupuy. No one knows the answer, but “each of us can find a way to alleviate the suffering in Palestine now as we grapple with the question of how to stop the wounds that continue to bleed,” Zaya and Maurizio contend. “We can stand for justice, food, and human rights, recognize the dignity of Palestinians and fight for their freedom.”

Spiritual communities are mostly quiet on this issue, Zaya mentions. But “it’s not a political issue,” she says, “it’s a human issue—we are losing our humanity. If we believe in oneness, we need to face our discomfort and turn towards the pain, towards the suffering. Discomfort is the very essence of the issue on a psychological and archetypal level,” Zaya adds. Zaya and Maurizio are also working on a remarkable series of films called The Eternal Song, an ongoing project to bring forth teachings from Indigenous communities around the world. To date, they have released The Eternal Song, Mauri: The Vital Essence of All Beings, and most recently If an Owl Calls Your Name. Thank you, Zaya and Maurizio, for contributing your gifts in these stunning films, so poignant and important in these disconnected, turbulent times, and for sharing your extraordinary wisdom with our Deep Transformation listeners. Recorded October 16, 2025.

“Opening to the darkness and the pain is the gift of this time. We are all one; we cannot continue to separate ourselves into our comfortable silos.”

• Making the 2021 film Where Olive Trees Weep, about the tragic mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank (00:58)
• Making films about the effects of colonization all over the world (04:36)
• The more hateful the emails Zaya & Mauriozio received, the more they answered & engaged (06:01)
• There are 80 years of history behind the conflict in Palestine; everywhere you look there’s injustice (06:57)
• Apartheid in Palestine is maybe more extreme than in South Africa (10:26)
• What can we do about Gaza now? Stand for justice, food & human rights, recognize the dignity of Palestinians & fight for their freedom (12:37)
• Netanyahu is not the problem, the system is rotten to the core (15:20)
• How do we stop the violence? (18:49)
• Acknowledging the beauty & power of Zaya & Maurizio’s Where Olive Trees Weep (20:37)
• The silence about Gaza in most spiritual communities: if we believe in oneness, we need to turn towards the suffering (25:38)
• Thanking Zaya & Maurizio for the film, and tales of the transformative effects of engaging with senders of hate mail (29:26)
• Zaya & Maurizio’s movie The Eternal Song came out in June 2025, but they are making many more films in Indigenous communities, like If an Owl Calls Your Name (link below) (34:10)
• Opening to the darkness and the pain is the gift of this time—we are all one, and we cannot continue to separate ourselves into our comfortable silos (37:57)

Ep. 211 (Part 1 of 2) | Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo are not only the founders of the longstanding and highly regarded Science & Nonduality Conference (SAND), but also brilliant filmmakers, producing stunning documentaries about the injustice and suffering occurring in Palestine and elsewhere, as well as films that feature the eternal wisdom of elders from Indigenous communities around the world. Zaya and Maurizio are clearly passionate about their work, and co-host Roger Walsh points out they do a beautiful job of intertwining the personal, professional, and spiritual into an offering that meets the needs of our time. As Maurizio says, “There is no spiritual work. Period. Everything is spiritual work! It’s life.”

In Part 1 of this episode, lively and inspired, Zaya and Maurizio share what they’ve learned about life, spirituality, trauma, healing, guidance, and the deep-time perspective of the Maori. They relate the trajectory of SAND’s evolution from featuring male-dominated nondual teachings to include an understanding of trauma, somatic healing, feminine, earth-oriented teachings, and Indigenous wisdom. “Healing never ends; it’s a lifelong journey—there’s no modern solution that will ‘fix’ you,” Zaya tells us. Also, “We are constantly being guided if we just listen.”

In Part 2, Zaya and Maurizio describe the making of their 2021 documentary about the tragic mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, a beautiful, heartbreaking film called Where Olive Trees Weep. Also their film The Eternal Song, an ongoing project to bring forth Indigenous teachings, so valuable and timely for us now in our chaotic, disconnected world. This whole conversation is thought provoking, delightful, profound, paradigm shifting, and inspiring all at once. Recorded October 16, 2025.

“There is no spiritual work without trauma work.”

• Introducing Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo, documentary filmmakers & founders of the Science & Nonduality Conference (SAND) (00:57)
• Tracing the trajectory of Zaya & Maurizio’s work, beginning in India (02:24)
• What was Nisargadatta Maharaj’s legacy? (03:47)
• Putting science and mystics together: the seed that created SAND (06:35)
• How SAND evolved from male-dominated nondual teachings to include the body, an understanding of trauma, and female & Indigenous teachers (08:18)
• Feminizing spiritual teachings: women mystics & their connection with the Earth (12:38)
• SAND focuses on educating the audience to be open, ask good questions, rather than uplifting particular teachers (16:09)
• How the film The Wisdom of Trauma with Gabor Maté went viral (20:08)
• All of life is spiritual work, and there’s no spiritual work without trauma work, but spiritual bypassing was very real at SAND (24:13)
• With Maté’s understanding about trauma, people find they’re not alone and they don’t need to “fix” the pain (26:39)
• Healing is a lifelong journey; trauma is systemic and intergenerational (32:08)
• The deep-time perspective and how the Maori trace their ancestors back to the stars (33:22)
• Indigenous teachers say we heal backwards and we heal forwards; nothing is individual, we are all interconnected (34:54)
• Now is the time for the Long Dark, not the time for the search for the light (38:52)
• We are all here for a purpose, and we are constantly being guided if we just listen (42:31)
• The suffering of today’s youth, isolated and without elders...

Ep. 210 (Part 3 of 3) | In Part 3 of the 15th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali speaks about the evolutionary aspect of the creative dynamism of the universe. He explains there is an optimizing, transformative force that is responsible for one form changing to another, like a caterpillar to a butterfly. This developmental force is in alignment with Western concepts of evolution and progress, and applies to spiritual realization, too. There is also an optimizing force specific to the human soul, Hameed tells us, that fuels the hearts that burn with the desire for liberation. This is the force responsible for spiritual development. In Buddhism it is called bodhicitta, the desire for enlightenment.

Why do some people have a fierce desire to seek the truth, asks co-host Roger Walsh, but many do not? Hameed replies that most people are busy making a living, doing their best to get by. In this case the transformative force remains a potential but is not actualized. Seekers possessed by the flame of the search turn inward, asking, What is God? What is truth? What is reality? Scientists look at this externally, he says, but it is the inward turn that reveals the source of the inner fire, the logos, the word that speaks through our souls and through our hearts. Towards the end of the conversation, Hameed laughs at how upside down things are with us looking for answers everywhere but within and thinking the logos speaks through who we think we are, not realizing we ourselves actually are the logos. If we realize who we truly are, he says, the world itself becomes richer. Another infinitely inspiring talk with A. H. Almaas, filled with astonishing wisdom and loving humor. Recorded September 11, 2025.

“Be attentive to the inner calling. Inner pleasure far surpasses outer pleasure.”

• The developmental aspect of creative dynamism & the Western concept of evolution, of progress (00:39)
• Development is part of the order, the progression of one form to another, the process of maturation, like spiritual realization (03:36)
• The universe has an optimizing, transformative force, like a caterpillar to a butterfly (09:02)
• There is also an optimizing force specific to the human soul, where hearts burn with desire for liberation; this is responsible for spiritual development (11:41)
• Why do some people have this desire and most do not? (13:44)
• In the Western world, spiritual realization is a luxury; in the East there is some support for people pursuing realization (17:08)
• Intensifying & purifying spiritual aspiration with practice: we find pleasure when the soul turns inward (19:13)
• Be attentive to this inner calling: know thyself (22:40)
• The flame of the search reveals the source of the inner fire, the logos, the word that is speaking through our souls, our hearts (25:02)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of

Ep. 209 (Part 2 of 3) | In Part 2 of the 15th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali delves into the very creation of reality by the logos, the source of all life. Logos (an ancient Greek term) is often considered to mean “word,” but Hameed uses it in its deeper sense, where logos is not only the word but also the speaker—the living field of manifestation. The soul is very similar to the logos, Hameed adds, with the same sense of flow, dynamism, and creativity. Hameed points out that the universe could have been created haphazardly, but because it was created in an orderly fashion, it allows for our lives to be meaningful. And, he continues, it is the dimension of love implicit in the logos that brings a beautiful sense of harmony, love, and gratitude to the human soul.

What about all the disharmony in the world? co-host Roger Walsh asks. How can genocide happen in a world that is divinely harmonious? To help explain this, Hameed uses the human body as an example of two perspectives that co-exist: from the perspective of time, we die, he says, but from the perspective of the particle, all is perfect. Hameed also describes his personal experience of being aligned with the creative dynamism of the logos, creating himself and the world anew each moment, like the way frames in a movie are constantly being replaced. The more we live this, he says, the more we bring harmony to the world. Join us also for Part 3 of this deep and intriguing dive into the nature of reality, where Hameed continues to talk about creative dynamism and the logos, and explains how this pertains to our own individual spiritual evolution. Recorded September 11, 2025.

“For the divine all is harmony, but for us human beings, it looks like mayhem.”

• The soul is very similar to the logos, with the same sense of flow, dynamism & creativity (00:42)
• Quantum theory says the field is generated by physical phenomena—but the logos is created out of spiritual mass, it’s the living field of manifestation (01:25)
• The universe is alive and the logos is the source of all life (05:25)
• Creative dynamism is a nondual dynamism that brings order to the universe; this creative order is what makes our lives meaningful (05:50)
• An intelligence has created the universe so that it knows itself (09:42)
• All forms in the nondual are basically noetic forms, and the logos is an unfoldment of these forms (11:30)
• If the dimension of love is implicit in the logos, it brings a beautiful sense of harmony, love & gratitude to the human soul (12:35)
• What about all the disharmony in the world? For the divine all is harmony, but for us human beings, it looks like mayhem (13:24)
• Take the example of the human body: from the perspective of time we die, from the perspective of the particle it’s all perfect (14:47)
• Hameed’s experience of creating himself and the world each moment (17:01)
• The dualistic world is not an illusion; it’s one way the logos manifests reality (21:18)
• Direct transmission: the Black Hat Ceremony of the 16th Karmapa (22:30)
• In the Diamond Approach, transmission happens through words; the word is not separate from the state (25:59)
• The word transmission is a misnomer; it’s a direct invocation (28:53)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of

Ep. 208 (Part 1 of 3) | In Part 1 of the 15th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali enlightens us about the dynamic, creative force that generates our reality. “Dynamism is constant,” Hameed explains, “it never stops—it is constantly creating what we experience, what we perceive.” Hameed calls this nondual dimension of true nature—of our nature—creative dynamism. How do you explain change, he asks, if it’s not happening in time, and all of reality is one fabric, nondual? The dynamism Hameed speaks of, ongoing and total, has a radical implication: the entire universe is re-created, instant by instant. Not only the physical dimension, Hameed adds, but all dimensions—mental, emotional, and spiritual—are re-created anew.

As co-host Roger Walsh points out, Hameed’s teachings come from direct experience, and Hameed describes his own mind-blowing experience of the moment-by-moment re-creation of himself and the world in Part 2 of this dialogue. Nothing persists, he discovers, movement is not continual. In Part 1, Hameed also explores the subjects of free will, action, and choice as addressed from a nondual perspective, and the fact that we and our actions emerge from the totality of reality. As always, Hameed transmits his joy and exuberance at the mysterious and marvelous ways true nature expresses itself, and it is exciting to realize our own nature is as dynamic, creative, flowing and changing, as the universe. Recorded September 11, 2025.

“All of reality is part of one unified fabric, so what does it mean when a bird flies from one place to another?”

• Introducing dialogue #15 in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, focusing on the chapter “Logos & Creative Dynamism” in
• The Inner Journey Home (01:11)
• How do other spiritual traditions explain change? (03:05)
• Opening to the fact that our true nature has dynamism and flow (05:51)
• Where does the word the "logos" come from? (07:07)
• Radical dynamism: the entire universe is re-created, instant by instant (09:58)
• Replacement: reality is replaced each instant, just like in the movies when one screen replaces the last (13:13)
• Not just the physical dimension, but all dimensions—mental, emotional & spiritual—are created anew (18:51)
• Free will, action, choice addressed from a nondual perspective (21:15)
• We need to acknowledge our choice-making capacity and the fact that we and our actions are emerging from the totality of reality (24:49)
• Dynamism shows we don’t need the “doer”—the universe is what “does” (27:09)
• The teaching of transitoriness (30:20)
• Each soul is a ripple in the ocean, a part of what is being constantly recreated (30:49)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
• A. H. Almaas,

Ep. 207 (Part 2 of 2) | In this extraordinary, compelling conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?” Recorded August 7, 2025.

“The future is unknown, so don’t conclude that all is dark – or that all is bright! It’s unknown, so as long as we’re breathing and functioning, we have a lot to do.”

• Waking up with enthusiasm, excitement, and inherent appreciation (01:06)
• What is Jerry engaged in right now? (03:34)
• Roger’s summary of the global issues facing us today (05:50)
• The nuclear danger is as important as it is underreported, and the key to proliferation is fear (07:17)
• The ICBM Caucus (11:38)
• Not talking about the arms issue is to be complicit (13:52)
• Sitting with the question, what can I do? (16:19)
• Social and political recognition of danger is so very important (18:12)
• We have to turn and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn (19:01)
• The future is unknowable, so we do what we can (20:05)
• Living in inquiry, the quest for truth (22:44)
• Why was Jerry drawn to work for the good of the environment? (23:47)
• The Jesuit belief in eternal damnation (27:55)
• What you can derive from Zen (30:45)
• Becoming individuators on the developmental path (33:15)
• What does Jerry wish he’d known sooner? (34:49)
• There’s always more to be learned (37:29)

• Jerry Brown, Chair of the California-China Climate Institute at UC Berkeley
• Ernest Samuels, Henry Adams

Ep. 206 (Part 1 of 2) | In this extraordinary, compelling conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?” Recorded August 7, 2025.

“We should not sleep in the delusion that things are better than they are.”

• Introducing former Governor of California, Jerry Brown (00:43)
• Jerry’s Jesuit background and the transformative process (02:29)
• What shaped Jerry’s orientation to life? Growing up in a more innocent, unambiguous time in San Francisco (04:10)
• Today’s chaos and confusion is what led to the presidency of Donald Trump (10:20)
• The challenge in a democracy is getting a consensus—right now the “We” in “We the People” doesn’t have coherence (14:44)
• Today the democratic ideal is up for grabs; it’s zero-sum—all about winning, and the payoff for scapegoating is very high (15:52)
• We need an enormous amount of resources to address our problems, but using tax dollars requires a public belief and commitment that is not there (17:41)
• The doomsday clock is ticking, the dangers are growing: nuclear, bio, climate, AI, satellites & weaponry (21:42)
• Planetary realism and the need to work together: shared vulnerability needs to give rise to shared interest (26:35)
• What can we do as individuals? Where you can be helpful and human and responsive, do that (32:05)
• We are in the power of forces that a) we don’t control and b) we can’t do anything about (35:50)
• We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it: how do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard? (36:57)
• Sitting Zazen in the face of what’s happening (39:32)
• Jesuit slogan: Do what you’re doing (age quod agis) (42:20)

• Jerry Brown, Executive Chair of the the

Ep. 205 (Part 2 of 2) | In the fourteenth dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the nonconceptual nature of the dimension of pure awareness, guiding us into the realm that lies beyond conceptual dichotomies such as being/nonbeing, being/doing, duality/nonduality, good/bad, and meaningful/meaningless. Beyond knowing, this dimension exposes and challenges conceptual polarities, and when we arrive at this level of realization we are able to trust letting go of knowingness and wake up to pure awareness. People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, Hameed explains, and it does lead to a death: the death of mind, the death of the doer. But even here beyond knowing, Hameed continues, the nonconceptual always operates from compassion and love.

How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? Roger and John wonder. One way is when knowing is integrated into being, Hameed answers. Then everything just happens; the doing is funneled through the individual. And there is another way, through developing the “pearl beyond price,” the individual, Hameed adds, but this way is rare. As co-host Roger Walsh says, this is an especially nourishing, stimulating, and intriguing discussion, with Hameed doing a beautiful job of relating how our concepts form the basis of our existence and what it means to transcend them, let go of our mind, deconstruct our perception of ourselves as the “doer,” and wake up to pure awareness. Recorded August 14, 2025.

“Conceptual dichotomies are important for the functioning of the human being, they are our building blocks… We need to recognize their usefulness—and also be able to be without them.”

• The conceptual dichotomy between good and bad (00:28)
• The nonconceptual always operates from compassion (02:31)
• Most spiritual teachings focus on the dichotomy of being/nonbeing (04:40)
• Non-knowing is a deeper realization; if you become aware of it, you wake up to pure awareness (06:00)
• Goodness is inherent; Ram Dass understood loving awareness (07:43)
• The dichotomy of duality/nonduality (11:04)
• Conceptual dichotomies are important, they are our building blocks; we need to recognize their usefulness and also be able to be without them (13:07)
• The problem comes when we believe our concepts are fundamentally true and we become locked into our separate identities (18:27)
• The dichotomy of meaningful/meaningless (19:13)
• Purpose/purposelessness and the Buddhist idea that our purpose is enlightenment (23:05)
• Time/timelessness (25:32)
• Going beyond the concept of God: the universal heretic (26:33)
• The master of knowledge: you can use the knowledge but you are not bound by it or attached to it (28:01)
• The view of totality (32:22)
• Love & compassion are inherent to all spiritual teachings (33:43)
• Living in pure awareness: the 16th Karmapa (37:45)
• Hameed, Roger & John discuss Deep Transformation guests Frank Ostaseski of Zen Hospice and former CA governor Jerry Brown (40:16)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School