Ep. 206 (Part 1 of 2) | In this extraordinary, compelling conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?” Recorded August 7, 2025.

“We should not sleep in the delusion that things are better than they are.”

• Introducing former Governor of California, Jerry Brown (00:43)
• Jerry’s Jesuit background and the transformative process (02:29)
• What shaped Jerry’s orientation to life? Growing up in a more innocent, unambiguous time in San Francisco (04:10)
• Today’s chaos and confusion is what led to the presidency of Donald Trump (10:20)
• The challenge in a democracy is getting a consensus—right now the “We” in “We the People” doesn’t have coherence (14:44)
• Today the democratic ideal is up for grabs; it’s zero-sum—all about winning, and the payoff for scapegoating is very high (15:52)
• We need an enormous amount of resources to address our problems, but using tax dollars requires a public belief and commitment that is not there (17:41)
• The doomsday clock is ticking, the dangers are growing: nuclear, bio, climate, AI, satellites & weaponry (21:42)
• Planetary realism and the need to work together: shared vulnerability needs to give rise to shared interest (26:35)
• What can we do as individuals? Where you can be helpful and human and responsive, do that (32:05)
• We are in the power of forces that a) we don’t control and b) we can’t do anything about (35:50)
• We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it: how do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard? (36:57)
• Sitting Zazen in the face of what’s happening (39:32)
• Jesuit slogan: Do what you’re doing (age quod agis) (42:20)

• Jerry Brown, Executive Chair of the the

Ep. 205 (Part 2 of 2) | In the fourteenth dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the nonconceptual nature of the dimension of pure awareness, guiding us into the realm that lies beyond conceptual dichotomies such as being/nonbeing, being/doing, duality/nonduality, good/bad, and meaningful/meaningless. Beyond knowing, this dimension exposes and challenges conceptual polarities, and when we arrive at this level of realization we are able to trust letting go of knowingness and wake up to pure awareness. People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, Hameed explains, and it does lead to a death: the death of mind, the death of the doer. But even here beyond knowing, Hameed continues, the nonconceptual always operates from compassion and love.

How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? Roger and John wonder. One way is when knowing is integrated into being, Hameed answers. Then everything just happens; the doing is funneled through the individual. And there is another way, through developing the “pearl beyond price,” the individual, Hameed adds, but this way is rare. As co-host Roger Walsh says, this is an especially nourishing, stimulating, and intriguing discussion, with Hameed doing a beautiful job of relating how our concepts form the basis of our existence and what it means to transcend them, let go of our mind, deconstruct our perception of ourselves as the “doer,” and wake up to pure awareness. Recorded August 14, 2025.

“Conceptual dichotomies are important for the functioning of the human being, they are our building blocks… We need to recognize their usefulness—and also be able to be without them.”

• The conceptual dichotomy between good and bad (00:28)
• The nonconceptual always operates from compassion (02:31)
• Most spiritual teachings focus on the dichotomy of being/nonbeing (04:40)
• Non-knowing is a deeper realization; if you become aware of it, you wake up to pure awareness (06:00)
• Goodness is inherent; Ram Dass understood loving awareness (07:43)
• The dichotomy of duality/nonduality (11:04)
• Conceptual dichotomies are important, they are our building blocks; we need to recognize their usefulness and also be able to be without them (13:07)
• The problem comes when we believe our concepts are fundamentally true and we become locked into our separate identities (18:27)
• The dichotomy of meaningful/meaningless (19:13)
• Purpose/purposelessness and the Buddhist idea that our purpose is enlightenment (23:05)
• Time/timelessness (25:32)
• Going beyond the concept of God: the universal heretic (26:33)
• The master of knowledge: you can use the knowledge but you are not bound by it or attached to it (28:01)
• The view of totality (32:22)
• Love & compassion are inherent to all spiritual teachings (33:43)
• Living in pure awareness: the 16th Karmapa (37:45)
• Hameed, Roger & John discuss Deep Transformation guests Frank Ostaseski of Zen Hospice and former CA governor Jerry Brown (40:16)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School

Ep. 204 (Part 1 of 2) | In the fourteenth dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the nonconceptual nature of the dimension of pure awareness, guiding us into the realm that lies beyond conceptual dichotomies such as being/nonbeing, being/doing, duality/nonduality, good/bad, and meaningful/meaningless. Beyond knowing, this dimension exposes and challenges conceptual polarities, and when we arrive at this level of realization we are able to trust letting go of knowingness and wake up to pure awareness. People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, Hameed explains, and it does lead to a death: the death of mind, the death of the doer. But even here beyond knowing, Hameed continues, the nonconceptual always operates from compassion and love.

How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? Roger and John wonder. One way is when knowing is integrated into being, Hameed answers. Then everything just happens; the doing is funneled through the individual. And there is another way, through developing the “pearl beyond price,” the individual, Hameed adds, but this way is rare. As co-host Roger Walsh says, this is an especially nourishing, stimulating, and intriguing discussion, with Hameed doing a beautiful job of relating how our concepts form the basis of our existence and what it means to transcend them, let go of our mind, deconstruct our perception of ourselves as the “doer,” and wake up to pure awareness. Recorded August 14, 2025.

“To be in the nonconceptual state, i.e. in sitting meditation, is half of it, but to actualize it is the other half.”

• Introducing the 14th dialogue in the
• A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, focusing on nonconceptual awareness & transcending conceptual dichotomies (00:51)
• Nondual reality, at the heart of The Inner Journey Home, is differentiated into five dimensions, each of which reveals something important about the deconstruction process that happens with spiritual practice (03:41)
• Nonconceptual means beyond the capacity of knowing (07:34)
• The experience of pure awareness transcends the dichotomy of existence/nonexistence (10:02)
• In Dzogchen, rigpa includes knowing—but pure awareness means no knowing, just perception (10:30)
• The dichotomy of being/doing is often a “sticking place” in our practice (16:10)
• How do we develop a continuity of nonconceptual awareness? (19:44)
• People fear annihilation at the prospect of going beyond concepts, and it does lead to the death of mind, the death of the doer (23:03)
• With this level of realization, we can trust letting go of our knowingness (27:10)
• What are ways for actualization to occur? (29:20)
• In true, deep sleep there is cessation, all awareness gone (34:38)
• When God manifests through the individual, the two dimensions of being and knowing can happen at the same (37:16)
• Many traditions think the individual is an illusion—it’s not an illusion, it’s an appearance (39:12)
• Most human beings get arrested at the ego stage of development, the separate stage (43:14)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan...

Ep. 203 (Part 2 of 2) | In this rich, delightful, and profound conversation, Integral Theory informed Father David McCallum, SJ, currently serving the Catholic Church as executive director of the Program for Discerning Leadership, leads us into a world filled with mission, purpose, and service, foundational to which is the practice of discernment. David describes discernment as the capacity to exercise good judgment, hold complexity, and wait for clarity. This is not only a practice for individuals, he explains, but also a communal one, providing a way for communities to discern and design together the future they want to create—through listening, dialoguing, participating. Discernment is a way of knowing and making sense of reality, David continues, and especially important now in this era of changes and choices to be made.

David enlightens us as to the beautiful and far-sighted reforms proposed by the late Pope Francis, who was all for changing the balance of authority and participation in the Church; for people to have direct experience of Presence and the capacity to practice discernment; who also advocated for taking swift action on behalf of our planet, even calling out the part in the Bible that says man has dominion over the Earth. From David’s description of “the journey worth making”—surrendering, opening, accepting divine grace and love—to using Otto Scharmer’s U Process to help find the courage to change and simplify our lives for the benefit of all, to the Church’s relationship with A.I., David provides us with an extraordinarily mind-broadening, motivating, and spiritually fulfilling perspective. Recorded July 10, 2025.

“Disasters and oppression today are by-products of a spiritual crisis… We don’t see the unity of all.”

• Turning inward for guidance: making discernment practices & skills available to all (01:07)
• The hunger to get back to direct experience (04:04)
• Practicing with the Ignatius exercises including contemplation: the path of silence (06:40)
• Pope Francis’ call out for action on behalf of the Earth (09:39)
• Using Otto Scharmer’s U Process to gain the courage to simplify our lives and make the commitment to change (12:11)
• Pope Francis’ challenging the idea that men should have dominion over the earth (13:30)
• Disasters and oppression today are by-products of a spiritual crisis; we don’t see the unity of all (15:13)
• Liberation theology: awakening the poor to their plight, giving them tools to remediate systemic injustice (16:52)
• Why Jesuits were killed in El Salvador (19:28)
• In the current situation in the U.S., what shape will/should religiously motivated resistance take? (20:23)
• The church, A.I., and the danger of losing our human competencies to machines (27:32)

• Father David McCallum, SJ, The Program for Discerning Leadership
• The Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius of Loyola
• Jesuit Roshi Bob Kennedy;

Ep. 202 (Part 1 of 2) | In this rich, delightful, and profound conversation, Integral Theory informed Father David McCallum, SJ, currently serving the Catholic Church as executive director of the Program for Discerning Leadership, leads us into a world filled with mission, purpose, and service, foundational to which is the practice of discernment. David describes discernment as the capacity to exercise good judgment, hold complexity, and wait for clarity. This is not only a practice for individuals, he explains, but also a communal one, providing a way for communities to discern and design together the future they want to create—through listening, dialoguing, participating. Discernment is a way of knowing and making sense of reality, David continues, and especially important now in this era of changes and choices to be made.

David enlightens us as to the beautiful and far-sighted reforms proposed by the late Pope Francis, who was all for changing the balance of authority and participation in the Church; for people to have direct experience of Presence and the capacity to practice discernment; who also advocated for taking swift action on behalf of our planet, even calling out the part in the Bible that says man has dominion over the Earth. From David’s description of “the journey worth making”—surrendering, opening, accepting divine grace and love—to using Otto Scharmer’s U Process to help find the courage to change and simplify our lives for the benefit of all, to the Church’s relationship with A.I., David provides us with an extraordinarily mind-broadening, motivating, and spiritually fulfilling perspective. Recorded July 10, 2025.

“No secular, material, and empirical path is going to satisfy the longing we have for a transcendent purpose, for meaning, for existential belonging, in the ways that a healthy spirituality can.”

• Introducing Fr. David McCallum, integrally informed Jesuit priest currently serving the Catholic Church as the executive director of the Program for Discerning Leadership (00:48)
• How did David come to devote his life to the Catholic Church? (01:48)
• The journey worth making: surrendering, opening, accepting grace (09:42)
• So many are disconnected from the deeper wellspring of spirituality (13:07)
• Pope Francis was a reformer, focused on changing the balance of authority and participation (16:46)
• Pope Francis also focused on the process of synodality, real dialogue, the importance of discernment & following where the spirit wants to lead us (19:31)
• Pope Leo XIV, self-effacing, generous, hard working, introspective, bringing balance and discipline (22:27)
• How does David’s understanding of developmental stages inform his work? (25:28)
• Using metatheories as a map to make sense of the change in era we are living through now (28:09)
• The rise of secularism; also burgeoning fundamentalism (31:26)
• Without faith, how can we make sense of suffering? (33:25)
• The temptation of ideology in these anxiety-producing times (36:07)
• What is discernment?
• Communal discernment: What is the future we want to create together? (40:39)

• Father David McCallum, SJ, The Program for Discerning Leadership

Ep. 201 (Part 2 of 2) | In the thirteenth dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali delves into the subject of knowing, or basic knowledge, at the deepest level of awareness. Different from ordinary knowledge, basic knowledge is inherent and immediate, an important feature of reality. You can know Being by being Being, he says; know consciousness by being consciousness, know peace by being peace. Being and knowing are the same thing, he explains, two sides of a coin. Some of what Hameed shares here is unique to his Diamond Approach teaching, and not found in other spiritual teachings, such as what he imparts about the origin of mind and the distinction he makes between pure being and pure awareness.

Hameed explains that we need our conceptual mind (to do our taxes, he laughs), but that reification—treating concepts as if they were real things—creates obstacles and alienates us from our true nature. The aim of all spiritual practice is to go beyond reification to immediate experience, he says. When Hameed describes the difference between pure presence and pure awareness, John wonders, how does Hameed remember the state of pure awareness when there’s no knowing in that state? And what does it feel like to experience no ground of being? Hameed answers in his usual enlightening, gently humorous way, leaving listeners in a state of open-minded wonder. Vastly illuminating, this conversation goes directly to the heart of being and the heart of knowing at the very foundation of true nature. Recorded July 17, 2025.

“Mind is not an obstacle. Not an enemy. The obstacle is the reified representation of mind. If we take the knowledge of that mind to be reality, that is the obstacle.”

• How does Hameed remember the state of pure awareness when there’s no knowing in that state? (00:32)
• Most spiritual teachings have pure awareness and pure presence as inseparable, but in this teaching they can be distinguished (03:26)
• The experience of pure awareness: transparency, translucence, freedom (04:02)
• The world is not an illusion; it is the face of God (06:13)
• The logos is what makes things manifest (09:48)
• Connecting the dimensions of pure being and pure awareness: mind is not an obstacle (11:46)
• Gurdjieff’s “stupid saints” (13:14)
• Mind is not the enemy; it’s the reification of knowing that is the obstacle (14:07)
• Pure awareness is more fundamental than pure being because there are no concepts; freedom is more palpable in pure awareness (17:14)
• Hameed’s multiple kinds of freedom; freedom independent from the ground of being (22:10)
• What does it feel like to realize there is no ground? (25:02)
• Transcending conceptual dichotomies: in spiritual liberation dichotomies can be stumbling blocks, like being vs nonbeing (25:20)
• Will science start to accept the ground of being? (29:38)
• Is math, the Euclidean theorem, a property of reality? (32:42)
• Consciousness and quantum theory (34:27)
• Knowing is fundamental to the universe; it’s inherent to our true nature (38:41)
• There’s no reason to have to choose between knowing and being, they’re two sides of the same thing (39:51)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of

Ep. 200 (Part 1 of 2) | In the thirteenth dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali delves into the subject of knowing, or basic knowledge, at the deepest level of awareness. Different from ordinary knowledge, basic knowledge is inherent and immediate, an important feature of reality. You can know Being by being Being, he says; know consciousness by being consciousness, know peace by being peace. Being and knowing are the same thing, he explains, two sides of a coin. Some of what Hameed shares here is unique to his Diamond Approach teaching, and not found in other spiritual teachings, such as what he imparts about the origin of mind and the distinction he makes between pure being and pure awareness.

Hameed explains that we need our conceptual mind (to do our taxes, he laughs), but that reification—treating concepts as if they were real things—creates obstacles and alienates us from our true nature. The aim of all spiritual practice is to go beyond reification to immediate experience, he says. When Hameed describes the difference between pure presence and pure awareness, John wonders, how does Hameed remember the state of pure awareness when there’s no knowing in that state? And what does it feel like to experience no ground of being? Hameed answers in his usual enlightening, gently humorous way, leaving listeners in a state of open-minded wonder. Vastly illuminating, this conversation goes directly to the heart of being and the heart of knowing at the very foundation of true nature. Recorded July 17, 2025.

“Being is the origin of mind.”

• Introducing the 13th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, focusing on the basic knowing at the foundation of our awareness & the reified way we see reality (00:46)
• The work is to recognize that reification is happening (02:55)
• We need to understand there are two kinds of knowing: ordinary knowing and basic knowing (04:12)
• There are degrees of how immediate our knowing is (07:55)
• Where does mind come from? (09:52)
• The recognition of Being and the knowing of Being are the same thing; this is a basic nondual understanding (11:45)
• The ground of mind is knowing: without knowing there is no mind (15:20)
• To know implies a concept: the concept of being (17:25)
• Reification is a developmental achievement (23:14)
• The story of Maharishi and the Senate committee (26:50)
• The aim of all spiritual practice is to go beyond reification to immediate experience (27:43)
• For the realized individual, basic knowing is primary (29:58)
• Knowing always means concept (31:56)
• We can get to an awareness that is free of knowing; what Hameed calls nonconceptual, pure awareness (35:41)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond...

Ep. 199 (Part 3 of 3) | Polarity management pioneer and author Barry Johnson and adult development expert Beena Sharma are masterful teachers on the subject of polarities and what polarity thinking can bring to the world, benefitting our well-being at every level. Together they explain what polarities are, why they matter, how to apply and leverage them, and the essence of polarity wisdom: pursuing the upsides of opposite poles. Barry is careful to explain that although either/or thinking is the root of our troubles, both/and thinking by itself isn’t the answer either. Integrating either/or with both/and thinking and recognizing the interdependence of all things is the road to transformation and, Beena adds, the engine of human development, of human maturity.

Barry explains the profound spiritual understanding foundational to polarity wisdom and Beena details how polarities shift according to our developmental stage. Each of the polarities discussed—justice/mercy, claiming power/sharing power, being/doing, to name a few—illuminates its sphere, whether it relates to democracy, social justice, or spiritual practice. Barry and Beena are passionate about the promise of polarity thinking and their excitement is contagious in this fast-paced, delightfully lucid dialogue, jam-packed with information that is practical, inspiring, and potentially life changing. Recorded May 22, 2025.

“Universal interdependence is the most clear example of divine, unconditional love, and the polarity is the smallest element within universal interdependence—the interdependence of two.”

• Back to stages: from self-interest to harmonizing, to independence, multiperspectivality, and oneness (00:35)
• We are born unique and we become more unique; we are born connected and appreciate being connected more and more (08:23)
• Applying polarity thinking to contemporary politics: immigration (09:29)
• The language of compassionate action (12:08)
• How polarity thinking can help us with the metacrisis (16:02)
• Leveraging polarities in everyday life, socially & culturally (20:11)
• How do we select what to do when faced by an overwhelming amount of choices? (25:42)
• We have to consciously become more competent, more masterful (27:28)
• Polarity tension is always there, and we need to forgive ourselves and others for not always doing a good job with leveraging key polarities, i.e. work & home, self-care & achievement (28:51)

• Barry Johnson, And: Making a Difference by Leveraging Polarity, Paradox, or Dilemma
• Barry Johnson, Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems
• Beena Sharma, founder Vertical Development Academy (VeDA)
• The 8 Stages of Vertical Development with Beena Sharma (Deep Transformation...