People don’t want to “be sustainable”... and Starbucks learned that the hard way. In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we learn from Amelia Landers, VP of Innovation at Starbucks, for a rare inside look at how one of the world’s most iconic brands is trying to close the intention–action gap for convenient -yet conscious- coffee.

For Starbucks, convenience is everything. Millions of people move through stores every day with deeply ingrained habits, emotional attachments, and morning rituals that are hard to change. Yet these same rituals are where some of the biggest opportunities for sustainable behavior change actually live.

Amelia Landers unpacks what she’s learned designing sustainability inside a global retail ecosystem where speed, consistency, and emotional comfort often outrank environmental intent. From reusable cup systems to packaging innovation, she shares how Starbucks is navigating circularity, consumer psychology, and systems change in real time.

This conversation is honest, practical, human — and required listening for anyone trying to make corporate sustainability work at scale.

Key Takeaways:

• Why “being sustainable” doesn’t motivate customers — but “making their world better” does: Sustainability is a polarizing identity; personal impact is a universal motivator.
• How Starbucks is tackling the convenience vs. sustainability paradox: Behavior change happens when sustainable choices are just as easy, seamless, and convenient as the familiar ones.
• Reusable cups as behavior design — not just waste reduction: A small but passionate group of customers proved that ritual, identity, and emotional connection drive adoption.
• Why circularity requires collaboration, not competition: Infrastructure, regulation, and recycling systems can’t be solved by one brand alone — “there is no IP in sustainability.”
• Progress over perfection in corporate sustainability: Sustainable innovation demands humility, experimentation, and the courage to move without all the answers.
• How Starbucks uses data, customer insights, and waste tracking to measure real impact: Metrics matter — especially when they reinforce behavior change and customer engagement.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction

02:00 – Amelia’s path from brand building at P&G to sustainable innovation at Starbucks

06:00 – Entering sustainability naively and discovering the complexity of systems change

08:04 – The convenience paradox: why “easy” always wins (and what Starbucks is doing about it)

10:30 – Designing reusable cup programs and customer-driven packaging innovation

14:07 – The hard parts: regulation, infrastructure, and the limits of what one company can control

16:01 – EPR legislation and the messy reality of circularity

17:49 – Progress, not perfection: leadership lessons from Starbucks’ sustainability evolution

19:46 – Influence without authority: navigating internal tensions

25:37 – Why tracking matters: measuring waste, behavior change, and customer engagement

28:38 – How different customer groups perceive Starbucks’ sustainability work

29:51 – Amelia’s closing wisdom: “Action is the antidote to despair.”

Additional Resources:

🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81

🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

What happens the day after Earth Day?

In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we sit down with Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org, the force behind one of the most iconic and enduring movements on the planet.

This episode is a masterclass in what it takes to accelerate a legacy climate movement that spans 192 countries and activates over a billion people every year.

From our deep psychological resistance to change to the global rise of pollution, plastics, and political polarization, Kathleen reveals why progress remains so slow, even when the stakes couldn’t be higher.

She shares how Earth Day evolved into a global hub for environmental action, why it’s become now an “unstoppable movement,” and why fear-based messaging backfires. Most importantly, she explains how protecting “what surrounds us” — the very definition of environment — can rewire how people connect with climate, community, and hope.

Key Takeaways:

• “People love the status quo.” Human resistance to change (not science or technology) is one of the biggest barriers to environmental progress.
• Earth Day’s biggest challenge is the day after. Mobilizing a billion people is powerful but sustaining the momentum requires cultural and behavioral change.
• Climate change presents an opportunity to reinvent the world. Kathleen believes that there is an optimistic opportunity confronting us: we get to redesign our systems, economy, and future for the better.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Kathleen’s surprising path: TV, law, Olympic committees, and the road to EarthDay.org

08:00 – The global paradox: growing awareness, but worsening pollution

09:42 – Earth Day’s evolution into a global movement

10:00 – The challenge of momentum: What happens after Earth Day?

12:27 – The importance of protecting what surrounds us

13:10 – The rise of plastic pollution and public concern

13:36 – The true cost of Climate Change? Who is hurt most?

16:39 – Renewable energy as an “unstoppable” force

17:08 – Turning global problems into business opportunities

18:56 – Why changing human behavior is the hardest part

19:52 – Closing reflections: hope, humanity, and the miracle of the natural world

Additional Resources:

🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/wrkNR

🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/2PZeI

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

Can a company built on cigarettes build a future without them?

In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we sit down with Jennifer Motles, Chief Sustainability Officer at Philip Morris International, to explore what it takes to transform one of the world’s most controversial industries from the inside out.

Jennifer shares her experience leading ESG strategy within a global company undergoing an unprecedented shift — from selling cigarettes to building a smoke-free future. She unpacks the human and moral challenges of aligning business, purpose, and science in real time, and why sustainable transformation requires more than targets — it requires trust.

From corporate accountability to systems change, this conversation dives into how business can evolve beyond compliance and start designing for regeneration.

Key Takeaways:

• How Philip Morris International is navigating its transition toward a smoke-free future and the structural challenges that come with it.
• Why ESG needs to move beyond reporting and into strategy, leadership, and cultural transformation.
• The importance of moral courage and transparency in driving change within legacy industries.
• Why the future of sustainability lies in systems thinking, empathy, and long-term value creation.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction: What a “future without cigarettes” really means

05:00 – Jennifer’s path from public policy to corporate sustainability

08:39 – Rethinking ESG: moving from metrics to meaning

09:30 – The business case for transformation in legacy industries

11:02 – What does a smoke-free future look like?

13:08 – The tension between transparency and progress

13:30 – Systems thinking and redefining corporate responsibility

20:15 – Leadership lessons for the next era of sustainability

26:00 – Closing reflections: building trust in transformation

Additional Resources:

🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81

🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.