In this episode of PR in the Real World, founder of Experienced Media Analysts Steph Bridgeman returns to unpack what has changed - and what stubbornly hasn’t - since her first appearance.

She explains how the refreshed Barcelona Principles 4.0, discussed at this year’s AMEC Summit in Vienna, align with the Integrated Evaluation Framework so communicators can set objectives, map outcomes and connect activity to real behaviour and business impact.

Steph shares a candid take on AI in measurement, arguing that over-hype and opacity make it hard to trust black-box outputs when you need to ‘show your workings’. For her, good evaluation still relies on curiosity, transparency and the human judgement to question data rather than worship it.

The heart of the conversation is about embracing small numbers. Steph urges teams to stop kidding themselves with inflated site-wide reach and to recognise that article-level audiences are almost always lower than the headline figure. She explains why defensible, smaller numbers tell a truer story - especially when they link to what people did next.

Drawing on judging and winning experience at the AMEC Awards, Steph outlines what strong entries share: simple storytelling, clarity on learning and the courage to show how data drove change mid-campaign.

Steph leaves listeners with quick wins they can apply. She recommends using Google search data to evidence behaviour change and capturing Google Autocomplete before and after a launch to show shifts in demand - a ten-second tactic that lands in the boardroom.

This episode is for in-house teams and agencies who want credible, outcome-focused measurement that helps PR make better decisions.

Links & references

AMEC - Barcelona Principles 4.0: https://amecorg.com/barcelona-principles-4-0/

AMEC - Integrated Evaluation Framework: https://amecorg.com/amec-framework/

Experienced Media Analysts: https://experiencedmediaanalysts.com/

CoverageBook: https://coveragebook.com/

Releasd: https://releasd.com/

Google Trends: https://trends.google.com/

Everybody Lies (S. Stephens-Davidowitz): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everybody-Lies-Internet-about-Really/dp/0062390856

RAJAR: https://www.rajar.co.uk/

CIPR CPD: https://www.cipr.co.uk/CPD

AMEC Awards: https://amecorg.com/awards/awards-2025/

Steph's first episode: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-with-steph-bridgeman/

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In this episode of PR in the Real World, Liam Kelly, Vice President Product Marketing at Onclusive, joins Tony to explore how the rise of AI and data intelligence is changing the way PR professionals measure success and demonstrate impact.

With more than 25 years in media intelligence, Liam offers a fascinating look at how far the industry has come, and where it’s heading next.

The conversation explores how technology has evolved to meet the demands of modern communications, what AI can and can’t do for PR teams and why human interpretation remains the real differentiator in a data-saturated world.

Liam explains how Onclusive’s Global Content Hub now processes millions of pieces of media content an hour, why the shift from AVEs to meaningful business metrics matters, and how AI is already helping communicators detect crises, interpret sentiment and make faster, smarter decisions.

As the discussion turns to AI search and the emergence of Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO), Liam makes a compelling case for why PR professionals must take ownership of how their brands show up in AI-driven results – and how content structure, authenticity and accuracy are becoming new pillars of reputation management.

He also shares practical advice for regional agencies and smaller teams looking to adopt AI tools without big budgets, including where to start and what skills will matter most in the years ahead.

Liam’s long-running newsletter, PR Measured, has chronicled a decade of change across media intelligence, and his perspective on the next wave of transformation is grounded, accessible and refreshingly pragmatic.

A must-listen for PR professionals, communications leaders and agency teams who want to understand how data and AI can enhance – not replace – the craft of PR.

Links and References:

Onclusive – https://onclusive.com

PR Measured newsletter – https://www.linkedin.com/company/pr-measured/posts/?feedView=all

AMEC Integrated Evaluation Framework – https://amecorg.com/amecframework

Connect with Liam Kelly on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-kelly-insight/

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In this episode of PR in the Real World, we’re joined by Paul Holliday, Chief Strategy Officer at Bolton Wanderers Football Club, for a heartfelt and insightful conversation about his 20-year journey in sports communications that started in writing content for matchday programmes.

This episode dives deep into the world of sport, PR and purpose. Paul reflects on the highs of promotion glory, the lows of financial turmoil and the lessons learned from steering a football club through both triumph and trauma. His story captures the emotional heartbeat of regional communications.

Paul shares how the digital revolution reshaped the role of the comms professional and how AI and technology are creating new opportunities for PR teams. Paul’s journey is a masterclass in resilient, values-driven communication.

We also explore the human side of leadership: balancing professional challenges with family life, navigating mental health pressures and finding meaning through community impact. As Paul says, 'Football clubs are content farms, but the stories that matter most are about people'

A must-listen for PR professionals, communications leaders, and anyone who believes the best storytelling starts close to home in the communities that shape who we are.

• Bolton Wanderers Football Club – Official website: https://www.bwfc.co.uk
• Bolton Wanderers in the Community – The club’s charitable arm supporting local initiatives: https://www.bwitc.org.uk
• English Football League (EFL) – Paul’s former organisation: https://www.efl.com
• Viva PR – Independent regional PR agency behind PR in the Real World: https://vivapr.co.uk

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In this episode of PR in the Real World, Graham Goodkind, Founder and Chairman of Frank PR, returns to share the lessons, laughs and leadership insights from 25 years at one of the UK’s most distinctive agencies.

Picking up where Part 1 left off, Graham dives deep into the people side of PR - what it takes to grow a loyal, passionate team and why ‘growing your own’ talent has been one of the secrets to Frank’s longevity and culture.

Graham reflects on the pride (and occasional pain) of building an agency that’s produced hundreds of industry stars. He opens up about Frank’s journey through multiple ownership structures, sharing candid lessons about timing, intuition and why you shouldn’t always listen to the advisors.

Graham also explains how embracing an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) has re-energised Frank, giving everyone a stake in the agency’s future.

There’s practical wisdom here too: why leadership means letting people swim (but never drown), how to balance risk and reward and why founders must learn not to get too high on the highs or too low on the lows.

Graham also talks candidly about burnout, balance and rediscovering his ‘mojo’ - proof that even in a fast-changing industry, experience and passion can co-exist with humility and humour.

He wraps up with reflections on creativity, culture and keeping an agency relevant by mentoring Gen Z talent, launching Frank Social and a new creative arm that embodies the brand’s rebellious DNA.

A must-listen for agency founders, PR professionals, and anyone building a business with heart, humour and long-term impact in mind.

Links and References

Connect with Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/goodkind/

Frank PR - https://welcometofrank.com/

Graham’s ‘Legends of Frank’ series – https://www.linkedin.com/posts/goodkind_topthree-activity-7375895365574873088-o0Lo?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAC4mOfcBYPfcRe9wxqsRl4pJULZsG0BGg2M

Part 1 of Graham’s episode –

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2VH4uM6aAmsrDjDVaw7TEO?si=pA4Y_LqFS6CsbOTGff-G6Q

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/lessons-from-25-years-in-pr-with-graham-goodkind-part-1/id1777087032?i=1000731714212

https://youtu.be/_nlmnP371t4?si=dmTtAgeq0jDi1svc

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In this episode of PR in the Real World, Graham Goodkind, founder of Frank PR, shares some of the most practical and hard-earned lessons from his 25 years in public relations.

This episode is all about the mindset and moments that have kept Graham at the top of his game in an industry that never stops changing.

Graham explains why there’s never a perfect time to start a business, how to create a genuine point of difference in a crowded PR market and why the best ideas often come from being bold enough to go against convention.

He talks about the thinking behind trademarking 'talkability' and why every campaign should aim to get people talking organically — whether it’s in the media, online or around the kitchen table.

He also shares his stance on ditching timesheets and focusing on outcomes over hours, offering a different way to measure value in creative work. Graham discusses the creative process behind viral campaigns like Weetabix and beans, revealing what it really takes to make ideas travel and to turn into results.

You’ll hear why he believes in 'being a Dick' (a nod to Olympic high-jumper Dick Fosbury), how saying no to convention can help you say yes to creativity and why persistence — never taking no for an answer — is still one of PR’s most valuable skills.

This episode is a must-listen for PR professionals, agency founders and anyone looking to sharpen their creative instincts and understand what truly drives impact in modern communications.

Links and References

Connect with Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/goodkind/

Frank PR – https://welcometofrank.com/

CIPR – Chartered Institute of Public Relations – https://www.cipr.co.uk

Vote for Graham to be CIPR President - https://www.cipr.co.uk/CIPR/About_Us/Governance_/Elections/President_elect_candidates.aspx?WebsiteKey=0379ffac-bc76-433c-9a94-56a04331bf64

Weetabix x Heinz Beans Campaign – https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/controversial_breakfast_tweet

Dick Fosbury – The Fosbury Flop – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury

Cryonics Institute, Michigan – https://www.cryonics.org/

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The PR industry’s AI revolution is here, and this week, we’re turning insight into action.

In our 40th episode and part two of this special episode of PR in the Real World, Tony continues his conversation with Darryl Sparey, Joint MD of Hard Numbers, to explore how PR agencies can practically adapt to a future powered by AI, data and Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO).

Darryl talks about how Hard Numbers is bringing AI into the day-to-day - setting up a steering group to test ideas, using data to shape campaigns as they happen, and applying a commercial edge to how PR proves its worth.

He also issues a critical call to action: as Google’s AI Overviews and other generative search tools divert traffic from publishers, PR must financially support the editorial media ecosystem it depends on - or risk losing it entirely.

This is a must-listen for PR leaders, agency owners and communicators who want to stay ahead of the curve. If part one explained why GEO matters, part two shows how to make it work.

Links

Connect with Darryl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryl-sparey/

Check out Hard Numbers: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/

Read Hard Numbers’ Research: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research

Reputation in the age of AI: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research-reputation-in-the-age-of-ai

Onclusive and Hard Numbers: https://onclusive.com/en-gb/resources/whitepaper/ai-industry-trends-2025/

Institute for Public Relations – “How PR Pros are Using AI”: https://instituteforpr.org/how-pr-pros-are-prioritizing-strategy-and-workplace-value-in-2025/

Visit Viva’s website: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/

Other episodes of PR in the Real World: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

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The PR industry faces its biggest opportunity in two decades. Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO) and AI are already reshaping how reputations are built - and PR must be at the centre of that shift.

In this special two-part episode of PR in the Real World, Tony Garner sits down with Darryl Sparey, founder of agency 'Hard Numbers' and one of the leading voices on AI in PR, to unpack what GEO really means for communicators.

Hard Numbers' pioneering research into how large language models draw on editorial coverage makes the case for why PR can’t afford to miss this moment, and he told PR in the Real World what the industry stands to lose if they do.

Darryl is passionate about protecting and advancing PR’s role in shaping reputation in the AI era.

Darryl is putting this conversation at the centre of the industry - ensuring regional, independent agencies and in-house teams alike don’t get left behind.

If you want to understand how PR should respond to AI, and why GEO could be the defining discipline of the next 20 years, this episode is unmissable.

For more industry-defining PR conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to our channels.

Links

Connect with Darryl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryl-sparey/

Check out Hard Numbers: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/

Read Hard Numbers' Research: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research

Reputation in the age of AI: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research-reputation-in-the-age-of-ai

Ketchum UK - "We're Sitting on a Goldmine": https://www.ketchum.com/uk/news/we-are-sitting-on-a-goldmine-how-can-pr-influence-ai-search-results/

Insight Agents' Interview with Darryl: https://insightagents.co.uk/why-pr-really-needs-to-embrace-hard-numbers-or-risk-being-seen-as-irrelevant-with-darryl-sparey/

Institute for Public Relations - “How PR Pros are Using AI”: https://instituteforpr.org/how-pr-pros-are-using-ai/

Onclusive and Hard Numbers: https://onclusive.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/EN-UK-Case-Study-%E2%80%94-HardNumbers.pdf

PR in the Real World with Ben Verinder: https://embed.acast.com/671b4fbbe1ae5a1f28223a45/683da022708e9fc9b43c2d42

Visit Viva's website: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/

Other episodes: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

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PR in the Real World is the podcast from CIPR’s Small Agency of the Year, Viva PR, lifting the lid on how communications really works beyond the London bubble.

Each episode shares practical, budget-savvy tactics drawn from the communities we serve in healthcare, advanced manufacturing, education and the public sector. No celebrity gloss, just impact you can measure.

This week, Rachel Westray joins us to trace a career shaped early by family influence and sharpened by a year in León, where language and culture taught her how messages land.

Now Site Communications Manager at Westinghouse’s Springfields site near Preston, Rachel works at the junction of internal engagement, industry partnerships and community relations - moving in a single day from a parish hall briefing to a global call with colleagues across 40 countries.

She makes a compelling case for why comms must have a genuine seat (and voice) at the leadership table if it is to steer strategy, protect reputation and bring people with you.

We explore what ‘impact’ looks like in a safety-critical, growth sector: myth-busting with the public, building trust with stakeholders and planning Springfields’ 80th anniversary in a way that reflects the site’s deep roots and fierce loyalty.

Rachel explains how apprenticeships and internships create real social mobility, why the nuclear community’s openness is a strength and how regional organisations can - and should - be heard nationally.

There’s also an honest take on the post-Covid shift from comms as a ‘nice to have’ to business-critical, the role of professional standards through the CIPR and a balanced view on AI.

If you care about meaningful engagement, talent pipelines and the power of place in PR, this conversation is a masterclass.

Links

Connect with Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-westray-150b5458/

Westinghouse Springfields: https://westinghousenuclear.com/uknuclear/springfields

Nuclear Industry Association (NIA): https://www.niauk.org/

Women in Nuclear UK: https://www.winuk.org.uk/

Nuclear Institute – Young Generation Network (YGN): https://nuclearinst.com/ygn

CIPR (Chartered Institute of Public Relations): https://www.cipr.co.uk/

Lancashire Combined County Authority: https://lancashire-cca.gov.uk/

Lancashire Business Board: https://lancashire-cca.gov.uk/governance/lancashire-business-board

EDF – Heysham power stations: https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-stations/heysham-1

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